Ford Excursion Questions

Pskhaat

2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
  1. What year did the 2nd-row captains chairs get introduced?
  2. Were all years electric 4WD activation?
  3. How many miles generally until you'd rebuild the 7.3 (not Excursion specific)
  4. Did the 3rd row ever get headrests?
  5. What year were LATCH car seat attachments introduced into the Excursion?
  6. What is on the roof for rack attachments?
  7. What's the largest reasonable tire size on stock suspension and what is the largest tire that can reasonably fit in the back where the spare is?
  8. What were the wheel/rim sizes through the years?
 

gavan

Observer
  1. What year did the 2nd-row captains chairs get introduced?
    2002 I believe, but if you find them, they swap in to all Excursions. I love my bench and would not change it out.
  2. Were all years electric 4WD activation?
    IIRC, yes. There may be some gov spec XLTs out there with a floor shift, but I do not believe so. My factory wiring diagram shows all trucks to have the electric shift, but who knows. The floor has the cut out for the manual shift and that transfercase bolts up.
  3. How many miles generally until you'd rebuild the 7.3 (not Excursion specific)
    I have had 3 I have personally run from 100k to 200k with only basic maintenance, couple alternators, odd water pump, glow plugs. We ran some 7.3 van ambulances up to 275k with no issues except the body fell apart around them, but they were used hard.
  4. Did the 3rd row ever get headrests?
    No, it was always the 1998ish Expedition rear seat.
  5. What year were LATCH car seat attachments introduced into the Excursion?
    I have them in my 2000, and that was the first year
  6. What is on the roof for rack attachments?
    Not much. It is low profile and strong enough for light things, but I would use a bigger one for "real" loads
  7. What's the largest reasonable tire size on stock suspension and what is the largest tire that can reasonably fit in the back where the spare is?
    285/75r16, but you are going to have to modify the stock suspension.
  8. What were the wheel/rim sizes through the years?
    IIRC the only tire ever offered in the Excursion was the 265/75r16

I have a 2000 7.3 Excursion and I love it, but it has some shortcomings.

1. It is HEAVY. I have some heavier wheels and tires, and an ARB bumper on the front, but it is between 8000 and 8500 depending on how much fuel and gear I have in it.

2. The stock suspension SUCKS. It is designed to stay low to get people in and out. After wear the front springs sag and there is only about 1/2 inch between the front axle and the bump stop, and the ride sucks. The rears are too soft and they did not get a rear swap bar till 2004 I think, so it wallows down the road. When I got my truck at 81k miles it was borderline unsafe.

3. The transmission is not the most reliable thing in the world. Some people keep them for a long time, but in my experience of 1mil+ miles on multiple 7.3 fleet trucks we get about 125k on the stock one and 75k on each "stock" rebuild.

The nice thing about the Excursion is it shares much of the same platform with the Superduty.

For the suspension I simply swapped in F350 springs front and rear, and a stock rear tow package F350 sway bar. It went from a wallowing rough ride to a very nice ride with acceptable handling. I liked it a lot because it is all factory parts and it all bolted in. It is technically a "lift" and it does "lift" the truck 2 inches, but you are simply changing it to F350 suspension specs. The second best money I have spent on the truck.

For the transmission there are a lot of "better" aftermarket automatics, but I simply swapped in a ZF6 manual from a F350. All stock parts, all the driveshafts fit, and it is very reliable now. I have absolutely zero concerns about my transmission now, and I got better mileage to boot. The best money I have spent on the truck by far.


My truck ate tires, especially rear ones, but I tow heavy with it, and it is a heavy pig to begin with. I swapped to 19.5 heavy duty truck tires and I love them, but if you are not towing heavy regular load range E tires will be fine, just do not expect them to last. The Sportmobile van guys have the same problems.

I love my truck, feel free to ask any more questions about them, I will answer what I can.
 

njtacoma

Explorer
gavan,
slight high jack, but did you document the trans swap anywhere? I haven't found a well documented auto to stick swap (granted with only a little effort) but if you put one together I would like to look at it.
 

24HOURSOFNEVADA

Expedition Leader
gavan,
slight high jack, but did you document the trans swap anywhere? I haven't found a well documented auto to stick swap (granted with only a little effort) but if you put one together I would like to look at it.

X2. I was under the impression the ECU in the Excursion was a major headache in the conversion to a manual.

I see you answered as I was posting. Thanks for the link.

Pskaat,

We had a 7.3 Excursion before our 100 series. My wife comments weekly on how much she misses the Excursion. I think if it would not have been black (We lived on a dirt road) and if it had second row captain chairs we would have kept it. And that comes from a woman that has only owned Toyota products since she was 16.
 
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gavan

Observer
X2. I was under the impression the ECU in the Excursion was a major headache in the conversion to a manual.

It is outlined in my thread, researched in the Ford wiring diagrams, and running in my truck!

The ECM needs to be reprogrammed, DPtuner can take care of it. The rest is wiring. All of it works, even cruise control.

I love my manual Ex!
 

24HOURSOFNEVADA

Expedition Leader
It is outlined in my thread, researched in the Ford wiring diagrams, and running in my truck!

The ECM needs to be reprogrammed, DPtuner can take care of it. The rest is wiring. All of it works, even cruise control.

I love my manual Ex!


I just read the whole thread. Nice job.
 

Pskhaat

2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
I want your Ex gavan. I want a manual with the 7.3 and mild lift. You nailed it. I want the captain's 2nd row too, but I digress.

If you had to estimate a price figure (assume all the work you did would need to be done by someone else) what was the gross cost of the manual tranny switch?
 

Pskhaat

2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
As per LATCH, is it all 2nd row positions? Are there rear tether points? Any in the 3rd row?

With the manual switch, did you use a floor 4WD lever?

Would a 7.3 with 300k be ready for a rebuild? Any price figures you can guestimate to have it done right?

To roof rack, curious not to the stock one, but to what would reasonably be available as mount points for a real aftermarket rack?
 

gavan

Observer
My wife and I had 2 big issues with the captains chairs, but I know there are upsides too. We planned on running much of the time without a rear seat, and with a baby in the back, we could still take a set of parents easily. The possibility of seating 5 without the rear seat was much better than 4 for our situation.

The other big thing is the bench folds into a FLAT area behind the seat, and you have a good 9 feet of FLAT area from the tailgate to the front seats. We enjoy throwing a mattress in the back and still having a big area for gear, we usually have the mattress up against the front seats and still have a big cooking/eating/whatever area under the rear hatch. The buckets so not fold completely flat, and have a divot between them. But anyways...

The factory Ex roof rack rides on some heavy duty looking rails that are set wide and mostly over the roof/side junction, they look like they should be able to support a bunch of weight with no problems.

You can throw a 3/4 mattress (wider than a twin, not quite a full) in the back of the Ex without disturbing the middle seats. Crack the front windows with vent guards, extend the rear quarter windows out. It makes a nice place to spend the night!

*with the bench seat* there are 2 LATCH points set about 10 inches apart behind the passenger bench seat, and a single point behind the middle and drivers seats. These are part of the seat frame and would remove the bench, so the captains chairs would be different. I guess it would be nice to not have to remove a childs seat to get in the rear seating row with the captains chairs, but I still like my bench! The bench is stupid wide, I am sure you could also fit 2 seats on the "60" part of the 60/40 split and still use the "40" to access the rear area. That is what I plan to do with kid #2.

300k is not a trivial amount of miles. I think Ford long blocks are in the 4-5k range. No clue how much installing one is. Honestly, if the engine looked good, sounded good, had at least some sort of a maintenance history, passed the teakettle test (take the oil cap off, place it upside down back on the oil filler, and see if the blowby on the motor was enough to make the cap move like a teakettle) and drove well, I see no real reason it should NOT last to 400k miles. You might need an injector or IDM or other random pieces here and there, but the newest 7.3 Ford put out is nearly 10 years old, so any of them may need maintenance at any time.

To save time and money, I just used the factory electric shift transfercase and wired it to work with the manual transmission. You have to replace the input shaft for the automatic transfercase to work with the manual transmission, but that input will work with either transfercase, so if I ever have problems with the electric shift, I will just get a manual shift from an auto (much easier to find) and swap in my input gear again.

I got a rebuilt transmission, paid the core charge for the manual transmission, and got a new factory Ford shift tower, boot, shift lever, clutch, clutch hydraulics, transmission midplate and a couple other bits from Joe's Transmission shipped to my local shipping dock for just under 3000 bucks. They were GREAT to deal with, even when I screwed up the boot on my transmission they sent me out another one free of charge, did not even charge me shipping. I have no financial ties to this company, but they went beyond treating me right, and would recommend them without hesitation.

http://www.joestransmission.net/

I got a slightly upgraded clutch because I use the truck heavily and I have it tuned just a little, it was 600 bucks. Nice thing is it came with a flywheel, flywheel bolts and pressure plate bolts, so it was perfect for a swap.

I got the computer reprogrammed to manual transmission and a tune added to my chip for 100ish from DP tuner.

When you add in soundproofing, incidentals, consumables, blah blah blah, I am probably closer to 4000 bucks. I should have no problems selling my used Automatic transmission for 500 bucks at least.

3500 is not chump change, but when you compare it to a 4500-5500+ dollar high end BTS or John Woods transmission, it is a bargain - besides, I just like manuals.

I am horrible at guessing labor charges, but I would guess I ended up spending 50 hours doing the swap. Much of that was scratching my head, reading and rereading wiring diagrams, and doing several revisions on my transmission tunnel. I also had to put up and take down my crossmember several times for fitment issues. I would guess I could do it again in 25-30 hours, and I would assume a shop could do it in about the same amount of time.

The trick would be finding a shop that did not look at you sideways when you said you wanted to swap a manual transmission in to an Excursion, and give you the "go away" price - you know, that unrealistically high price that they would do it for if you actually paid it, but mainly they want you to refuse it because it is too expensive because they have no real desire to mess with it!

Then again, thats why I am a Paramedic and not a mechanic!


Bottom line is these pigs are not cheap. The engine is usually fine, but the suspension needs some help from stock form, the stock transmission will go out at some point, and it had a healthy appetite for front wheel bearings and ball joints. But anything will wear out ball joints over time, and I have a spyntech front spindle kit on my truck, so no more unit bearings.

But no one makes anything like them any more, it really is in a class of 1. I guess I will keep throwing money at it. Besides, have you ever priced a new 2500 Suburban? I have a looonnnggg way to go before I am in that spending league!
 

McZippie

Walmart Adventure Camper
What's the largest reasonable tire size on stock suspension and what is the largest tire that can reasonably fit in the back where the spare is?

[/LIST]

Picture of our Excursion with stock suspension and 18" Rims and 275/70/18 Tires.
The tire diameter are about 2 1/2" taller than stock. No rubbing or handling issues.
These are the same size rims and tires that are on 2011+, Ford F250 Pick-up.
.
I still have the smaller 16" spare in truck. If had flat in rear, would have to transfer good front wheel to rear and put spare on front and of course not use the 4wd.
.
FWIW it's a 2001 7.3 with 170K miles, no engine issues and runs perfect. Truck and Engine are 100% stock except larger wheels.
Like this truck so much, they'll have have to pry the steering wheel away "From my cold dead hands"

.
34352_1547558213451_7601251_n.jpg
 
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Waldo64

New member
I bought a 2000 Ex in 2010, and have been gradually modifying it. CaryT (on several of the diesel forums) has really worked out the suspension issues, and I followed his path. I added X-code front springs (the heaviest SuperDuty front leafs rec'd for snow plows etc) and 2" lift mounts. In the rear I swapped B-code springs + the two stock short 'partial leafs' as he recommends. Helwig sway bar, Cary's specially valved Bilsteins (twin front, single rear; Cary says this is the ONLY vehicle he believes needs double shocks for most normal use), front track bar, and twin front steering stabilizers absolutely transformed this vehicle. The handling on twisty mountain roads is amazing for a huge thing, and it is far more off-road capable. I added 325/60-18 tires for a better base as well.

Engine wise my mechanic buddy (who is a 'Chevy guy') says THIS is the diesel engine to buy. Good for a half-million miles w/ reasonable maintenance, and the SuperDuty truck chassis will last if taken care of. The tranny is the weakness, and I am VERY interested in the 6-speed swap when this one goes. The previous owner hauled a big horse trailer and the stock tranny was replace at about 130k, right before I bought it. So that is a way off.

I have done a lot of sound deadening both for better music, and more comfortable travel as well. It has added weight...but at this point, what is an extra 100# !!! I found this website when researching storage cabinet installs. I didn't realize that taking your car/truck back country had a name ("expedition") and LOVE much of what I see here.

25 yrs ago my wife and I bought an Isuzu Trooper that was our 'Expedition' vehicle...mostly base camp/launching point for backpacking trips in the Appalachians. We have had a lot of different vehicles over the years, and the wife was not exactly enthusiastic when I decided to buy the Ex. She has changed her tune at this point!
 

RocKrawler

Supporting Sponsor
I have a 295/75R16 in the interior stock spare location - snug but fits fine. A buddy has a 2002 7.3 with over 900K miles on the original motor, still running strong.
 

arcteryx

Adventurer
Scott- did you get one? we love ours, and have put on 60K since we purchased it in 2010, and now have 215K. No problems except normal wear/tear items (brakes/calipers/rotors, alternator, hub/axle/ball joints). All this I did using the help from forums, and saved a pretty penny doing it. Replacing the hub/ball joints was the toughest so far, its just so dang big/heavy. I did replace the ESOF with some WARN premium hubs, very pleased with them

For trannies, there is BTS that people rave about. Brian is one of the best for these.

ALso, captains chairs can replace the bench, but IIRC, 2000 and 2001 (i think) require some minor fab work for the brackets. I looked into it, but decided to stick what we have.

Like others, the wife LOVES this truck. Every time I mention selling it for a F250/F350, it's not a good conversation. So we're keeping it. I tow a decent amount, so it's perfect.
 

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