For Mashurst....406mhz PLB's....big Wiki.

[xtatik]

I checked out your REI link and took a look at the unit you bought. It's cute, definitely smaller than mine. I would say about half the size. Since the antenna wraps around the periphery of the PLB, does yours have a shorter antenna than mine? It might affect RF performance.

Well, it's not cute nor small enough in my opinion, and as I analyze the base weight of my pack.......it's looking like it may stay at home. It's too heavy for its limited function. In fact, the SPOT is now back into consideration. For its size and weight it also offers the "social media" aspect. I couldn't give a hoot about the tracking aspects of these gadgets, but family are saying they'd like to tag along on the interwebs and I'm looking into having a corresponding blog. I just can't get behind the idea of carrying an object of such limited function. Outdoor "octane athletes" will always have the luxury of schlepping gadgetry with them, and I enjoy that as well. But, this time I'll be using my drivetrain..not the trucks.
As for the RF performance....You have to realize these are very simple, very weak signal FM transmitters in the first place. This means they are purely line-of-sight. With such weak signals, all manufacturers will emphasize the need for a clear window to the sky. Any obstructions or other attenuating means will severely and adversely affect their performance. Anyone who has stood under a substantial tree and tried to use a GPS will understand this.
Also, I've been reading some of the comments here and will say I think you are putting way more faith into these instruments than I am willing. I think that will continue to be the PLB's achilles heel as more people buy up these instruments rather than seek out proper outdoors related training and skillsets. About the time these things started to hit the shelf at REI and other major outdoor retailers, problems began to mount. It's still too early to tell if these problems will sort themselves out as people become more aware of exactly how and when these instruments are meant to be used. Personally, I don't think it would hurt to require simple licensing for the users.
Here is another article I found from a backcountry ski/board site.
http://www.wildsnow.com/2323/plb-rescue-beacon-acr/

[Mashurst]

About the time these things started to hit the shelf at REI and other major outdoor retailers, problems began to mount. It's still too early to tell if these problems will sort themselves out as people become more aware of exactly how and when these instruments are meant to be used.

Ya the reviews on REIs site are kind of dismal.

[Mashurst]

Here is a good link with some numbers on rescues. Looks like most are still on water. http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/
And this one tells some of the stories http://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/SARSAT_Rescues.html gota love the Google API

[Karma]

HI Mashurst,
Sorry but I think your priorities are fuc*ed. Your well being is the important thing for both you and your family. You are letting your ego get in the way of good sense. I don't know what sort of trip you are planning but if emergency rescue is part of your thinking then go with the best. I would hate to loose you.

Plus, you are ignoring the part of the PLB write up that explicitly states that one of the big advantages of the PLB over the other gadgets is its ability to penetrate the overcover. It's because it has a much stronger signal. I believe you are seeking reasons to justify your position. Try to stay objective.

You are going out think yourself to your detriment. Again, I think you are picking nits. I'll say no more on this subject.

Sparky

[xtatik]

,
Plus, you are ignoring the part of the PLB write up that explicitly states that one of the big advantages of the PLB over the other gadgets is its ability to penetrate the overcover. It's because it has a much stronger signal.

It's not so much the power that allows these units to work better through some types of obstructions, it's the frequency (406mhz). They still only transmit at 4.6 to 5 watts on avg. It's much like the advantages experienced when using 70cm (440mhz) band vs. 2m (144mhz) band when indoors or in urban environments with tall buildings...etc.

Here is where I went for discussions that ultimately influenced my purchase of a PLB. As you can read, there are some good points made for the different units as it applies to what I'll be doing.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...569&startat=60

[Mashurst]

Sparky, I just learned these things existed… what a week ago? I am learning about them. I come to this site to learn about what is out there. What works for people and what does not and that is what I’m doing here. You are the one with the ego that can’t be objective. I have not made up my mind, while you clearly have. If you have something to add then I’m here to read it. If you don’t have anything other than “anyone that is not a PLB fan boy is an idiot and doesn’t love their family” than no more on the subject is exactly what I would thank you for.

I have gone to great lengths to keep this civil and objective. You are making it personal by using the F word and questioning my priorities. You don’t know me, my family or the type of travel I engage in, so I’ll thank you to leave me alone to set me priorities as I will and to learn about and yes, even question this technology.

There is no hard feelings on this end and I hope there are none on yours, but the personal attacks don't add anything to the conversation. I just posted a link to a site with a bunch of PLB success stories. Heck! if there were sides, I would be on yours. I'm liking what I know about these and I'm thinking of getting one to toss in the back of the jeep and to take on hikes. I'm really not sure why you keep coming at me anyway.

Knowledge is not good or bad it's just knowledge.

It's not so much the power that allows these units to work better through some types of obstructions, it's the frequency (406mhz). They still only transmit at 4.6 to 5 watts on avg. It's much like the advantages experienced when using 70cm (440mhz) band vs. 2m (144mhz) band when indoors or in urban environments with tall buildings...etc.

I think what makes them better its the fact that you are talking to a space bird rather than a ground station. 406 should get through the trees better than the GHz GPS signal anyway.

[Karma]

HI Mashurst,
Other than my concern for you I have no dog in this fight. Do as you wish. You know what is said about leading a horse to water. And the F word is just a measure of my frustration. I kind of like the word. It's so expressive and versatile.

Sparky

[Mashurst]

Sparky, Why don't you tell us about yours? How long have you had it? What was your experience getting it registered? When do you test it? What is the Test like? Have you ever had the battery replaced? What was that like? What did it cost? When do you chose not to bring it? Etc... Inquiring minds want to know.

[xtatik]

I think what makes them better its the fact that you are talking to a space bird rather than a ground station. 406 should get through the trees better than the GHz GPS signal anyway.

Both true. However, they can still struggle with forest overstory and the mfr'rs are still emphasizing a need for clear overhead view.

[Karma]

Sparky, Why don't you tell us about yours? How long have you had it? What was your experience getting it registered? When do you test it? What is the Test like? Have you ever had the battery replaced? What was that like? What did it cost? When do you chose not to bring it? Etc... Inquiring minds want to know.

HI Mashurst,
I'll answer but I think it is a waste of time. None of your questions are relevant to the basic issue which is emergency rescue. In order:

1. I have had it just under 5 years. As I mentioned I must get a battery replacement in Dec to conform to ACR's (the manufacturer) requirements.

2. I don't remember exactly except it was easy. You must fill out a form on-line and provide contact info. As I said before, every year I receive an email asking me to confirm that I still have it and to verify my contact information. This all happens automatically due to the registration.

3. I have not tested it since I first got it.

4. It's a straight go/no go test. What is included I'm not sure. I do know that the self test is defined by Federal protocol. My bet is that the self test is pretty comprehensive but, in keeping with the simple user interface, it is invisible.

5. No, I'm coming up to my first battery replacement.

6. I paid $700.

7. I never leave it behind. Why would I? On a trip I keep it in my day pack. Ordinarily, it's kept in my center console of what ever vehicle I'm using.

Why are you asking these questions? I thought you had already bought one.

Sparky