TCO: why we deciced not to get a Sportsmobile (yet :-)

[temple]

At those prices, don't look into auto racing as a hobby!

[The Swiss]

Good thread! But I think it became a little unfair towards Sportsmobile (disclaimer: I don’t own a Sportsmobile, don’t plan the purchase of a Sportsmobile in the foreseeable future nor do I know anybody at Sportsmobile) calling them “overpriced”. Just some random thoughts.

Sportsmobile:

• Be aware that prices are a result of the market, not dictated by a company. Sportsmobile does not have a monopoly (but a good market position in a nice niche), people who need/want a camper van have alternatives. The facts that Sportsmobile is selling their vans very well indicates that they are on target with the market price, not "overpriced".
• What it costs you to build a van yourself for yourself does not compare to the costs a company has to deal with. The more “social” a country or state is becoming, the higher the costs that get tacked on to a business and the harder it is for a company to make a profit.
• The reason Sportsmobiles mostly exceed the 100k barrier is not the base van and interior, but that most of their clientele expects to go camping in luxury living room conditions, with leather, surround sound systems, flat screen TV, electric operated everything and of course 4x4, big lift and big tires. A base 2WD Sportsmobile probably will run in the high 60k, not much more than a fully loaded SUV and – especially if equipped with a rear locker and good tires – will get you to 98% of the places you want to go and back home. (On a side note: the famous Westies conquered the world with a 47 HP engine and RWD only)

Now TOC or not TOC:
Any responsible person should do some kind of TCO for all major purchases, not just a Sportsmobile, to identify the true costs, no matter if it is a camper, house, car, boob-job, boat, bigscreen TV, iPad or the mediterranean cruise. Once you know the costs, then it's decision time:

• How happy does this purchase itself makes me?
• Will this purchase let me do things that make me happy (or how cweight put it “… it won't make much of a difference in how often I get off the couch…)
• Are the costs in a healthy relation to the added happiness this purchase gives me?

And unluckily, last but not least:

• Can I afford it?

Like with so many thing when life gets involved, there is just no right or wrong answer and what other people think of me and my decisions is none of my business.

[robgendreau]

Thought I'd chime in, being a SMB owner. I got mine in 2001, and I have to say they seem to have increased in cost faster than inflation, but it's hard to tell, since they've moved more to the high end. When I got mine, Quigley was doing the 4x4 for example, and there weren't as many bells and whistles to add. They sell towards the higher end, and look around here: that's what this site is all about. Aside from all the customs, there's Land Rovers, BMW GSs, etc etc. There are tons of cheaper alternatives just looking at initial cost.

But having said that, TCO of rec vehicles can be very misleading. The big factor isn't so much the price, or depreciation, it's the USE. People tend to delude themselves into thinking they'll use the thing (and it could be a boat, or second home, or time share) much more than they do. A couple of changed vacation plans and your cost calculation per actual use goes nuts.

Another factor, since we're on an offroad forum, is repairability. I got my SMB made to be pretty simple, and it's on a Ford platform with parts and mods aplenty. And regular-old RV or marine stuff inside. I have old vehicles, and can fix them. I would think you'd need to include some metric in your TCO to at least attempt to account for that.

Here's a sobering comparison. I recently fixed up a 1999 Chevy Tracker; got it with 120k miles in great shape. Raised it, new shocks, winch, etc etc and it's a great light offroader. $3000 price + 2500 add-ons. Couple hundred to insure. Sold it to a friend. He just bought a Newmar motor coach; 37'. Bigger than most places I live, with everything (and duplicates of everything). Tows the Tracker on a flat bed ($2500); the motor coach (with 21k miles) cost $87k. So for less than the price of a new SMB he's got a second home (BTW, it costs LESS to insure than my SMB! and gets 8 MPG to pull all that weight) and an offroad worthy vehicle. They park it out off dirt roads at Rasor Rd, Spangler or Jawbone in the Mojave, or Utah or whatnot and fourwheel and motorcycle all over the place. Like stay at Moab, throw a tent into the Tracker, and do the White Rim.

Me? I use their shower and toilet, and keep my frozen food in their fridge when we're traveling together.

[Detslider]

First and last post are great and SMB dream killers and I thank them for that.
I need occasional reminders that I can road trip in my cheap vehicle or, for the cost of a nice vehicle, fly somewhere nice.

[robgendreau]

First and last post are great and SMB dream killers and I thank them for that.
I need occasional reminders that I can road trip in my cheap vehicle or, for the cost of a nice vehicle, fly somewhere nice.

Hey, you can still have the dream...I still have my SMB. Just look for the downscale ones if that's what you can afford.

I've often thought the model for "adventure"/RV vehicle use ought to be what we used with boats. Charters. If you're an owner, you put it in charter and some outfit rents it to day sailors, classes, etc. They cover insurance and maintenance; you get to use it when you want. Sure, it gets more miles but being used isn't necessarily a bad thing. Plus you get some money out of it. We're seeing it now with car share apps as well. And they have auto clubs that do the same, at least here in the SF Bay Area. I can take out a Lambo this weekend for the right price. Maybe AirBNB for SMBs.....

[YoTerryH]

You are right down the road from GTRV, have them throw in a poptop and you're done.

http://www.gtrv.com/

GTRV's poptop is much cleaner looking than a Sports Mobile anyway. While open and closed.

Attachment 107672

Kinda funny to be browsing the forums and see my van. Not just A GTRV, but MY actual rig!

[John E Davies]

He just bought a Newmar motor coach; 37'. Bigger than most places I live, with everything (and duplicates of everything). Tows the Tracker on a flat bed ($2500); the motor coach (with 21k miles) cost $87k. So for less than the price of a new SMB he's got a second home (BTW, it costs LESS to insure than my SMB! and gets 8 MPG to pull all that weight) and an offroad worthy vehicle. They park it out off dirt roads at Rasor Rd, Spangler or Jawbone in the Mojave, or Utah or whatnot and fourwheel and motorcycle all over the place. Like stay at Moab, throw a tent into the Tracker, and do the White Rim.

That is one way to do it, but it comes with a ton of limitations .... plus you have to accept the fact that you won't be able to take that big bus anywhere on forest roads, or over those cool unmaintained Colorado passes. If you want complete freedom of travel, the rig has to be nimble with decent clearance and 4wd.....

John Davies
Spokane WA USA

[robgendreau]

Take those CO passes as an example. You park the RV down in Silverton and do all of them in your toad, which because it isn't built to sleep in, has much better 4x4 performance. Maybe there's a few way up there campsites you wouldn't be able to overnight in, but with a more nimble 4x4, ATV, UTV, motorcycle or whatever you see the same territory...and maybe even pack tent and stay overnight. Instead of your "home" being back in Spokane it's now in Silverton for a few weeks, so no long drive back either. Which is probably why more weekenders have the vans, and smaller vehicles, and the retired guys have the RV/second homes.

Me? I'm realizing that I like the 4x4 van because I like where it allows me to camp, and don't really care about driving marginal roads for the sake of driving marginal roads, which is kinda what my big bus RV friends are liking.

[John E Davies]

Take those CO passes as an example. You park the RV down in Silverton and do all of them in your toad

It's all about if you want to set up a base camp and drive circles around it for a few days, or meander through an area and out the far side. I much prefer the latter. I hate back tracking to a home base. I did that for many years when riding dirt bikes in the mountains. It gets old and it burns up a lot of extra gas and time.

I would still carry a lightweight vehicle to act as a toad - say a sub-250 pound dual sport like a Husky TE-310, or even one of the new e-bikes like the Zero FX 5.7 - for running short errands, exploring a tight side track, or driving out for help or parts if I got seriously broken down.

John Davies
Spokane WA USA

[robgendreau]

The e-bike is a very interesting idea. The Zero FX, eg, has swappable power packs; put them in your vehicle for regular power and then swap 'em in for a ride. Only weighs about 250 lbs. Not sure if that's possible, but mebbe. Not sure how many volts those packs use; they're about 2.5 kW though and I imagine it's way higher than 12v....