Thoughts on a Honda EX800?

[jeepfreak81]

I'm pretty sure I paid too much @ $200 but it was in great shape other than a varnished carb and a broken fuel line. I fixed those and it runs and works great. I figure it will last longer than any Chinese knockoff. It will just be used for lighting, and maintaining a battery in an M416 camping trailer. Maybe some other things if I think of them.

So good/bad/ripped off?

[Smksignals]

Couple of hundred bucks.... What the hell. You fixed it and works great. Unless you plan on installing A/C on the M416, enjoy.

[dwh]

Totally sweet deal dude. Seriously - I wish I had one just like it.


I've got a Champion 42431 that I bought for my camper just for battery charging:

http://www.championpowerequipment.com/generators/42431/

200 bucks delivered to the door (free shipping). 1200w continuous / 1500w surge - and I would have gone smaller if there was a smaller gen available (technically, there was - a 2-stroke Chinese unit, but I didn't want that).

Mine has used a little oil since day one. I have to add about an ounce every time I fill up the tank. But it'll run 14 hours on 1.2g of fuel running just my 10a battery charger. It's got about 1000 hours on it now and still starts first pull.

But I always run it dry and never leave it sitting with any fuel in it, and I add a capful of SeaFoam to about every 3rd or 4th tankful.

The only problems I've had were the spark arrestor getting clogged (not surprising for an engine that burns a little oil) and at 650 hours I had to pull the head and scrape off soft carbon build-up that was impeding the piston. (Again, not surprising for the same reason.) Champion emailed me the torque specs and exploded views and I did it myself. Took my time and goofed around and still had it done in under 2 hours - and it didn't even void the warranty. Those guys are easy to get along with.

After that is when I started adding the SeaFoam.

[jeepfreak81]

I am assuming that this one isn't invertor stable, could a 12V invertor that is stable for computers be ran off the 12V feed that it has if I wanted to charge a laptop? The 'meter' to adjust how many Hz it puts out using the governor doesn't appear to be real accurate on the Honda. If nothing else I can run the invertor off the battery. I have a big commercial invertor, but I don't believe it is laptop safe. So I may be getting a new one.

That Champoin looks to have decent specs too...


This is one of the invertors I may use...

[dwh]

Some of the Chinese knockoff inverter type generators do have a modified square wave inverter, but most actually have sine wave inverters.

Any constant speed rotating alternator (a.k.a., synchronous) type of generator - like yours, and mine - will put out sine wave.

So the wave form isn't an issue.

The frequency stabilization - a governor to keep the engine at an rpm of a multiple of 60 to get 60hz, usually 3600 rpm but some bigger ones...Onan I think...run at 1800 - isn't all that critical actually.

North America runs at 60hz, but the rest of the world runs at 50hz. And the North American power grid big shots have been tossing around the idea of taking the North American grid down to 50hz as well.

(Personally, I wish they would. As an electrician, I'd much rather have the 230v/50hz that the rest of the world has. But even if they lower the freq here in N.A., they'll almost certainly stick to 120v mains because upgrading the whole continent would be a real PITA. But it needs to be done, and they really SHOULD do it.)

About the only thing that is sensitive to freq is digital clock circuits - like the timer in a microwave. And they'll still work fine...they'll just be off a bit.
A laptop power brick won't care at all about the freq as long as the voltage is in the ballpark.

If you take a laptop to Europe or Down Under and use a 230v -> 115v travel adapter...well, you'll have 115v, but still at 50hz...the travel adapter (step down transformer) can't do anything about the frequency. Works just fine though.

[dwh]

Oh, and I'm pretty sure that old Tripp-Lite inverter of yours is a modified square wave inverter anyway.
You'll get a sine wave from the Honda and a mod square wave from that inverter.

Either will be fine for 99% of electrical devices, but you won't need the inverter if the gen is running.

Contrary to popular belief, computers are not electrically sensitive. Laptop power bricks are...well...bricks. And desktop power supplies are pretty tough as well.

And in the real world, voltage drop brownouts do FAR more damage to computer systems than surges. As an electrician with 12 years in, and as a computer network engineer with 12 years in - I wouldn't waste my money on doofy "surge protectors" but a battery backup UPS is worth its weight in gold.

[jeepfreak81]

Couple of hundred bucks.... What the hell. You fixed it and works great. Unless you plan on installing A/C on the M416, enjoy.

No plans to, I never had it growing up, and feel we shouldn't need it now.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure that old Tripp-Lite inverter of yours is a modified square wave inverter anyway.
You'll get a sine wave from the Honda and a mod square wave from that inverter.

Either will be fine for 99% of electrical devices, but you won't need the inverter if the gen is running.

Contrary to popular belief, computers are not electrically sensitive. Laptop power bricks are...well...bricks. And desktop power supplies are pretty tough as well.

And in the real world, voltage drop brownouts do FAR more damage to computer systems than surges. As an electrician with 12 years in, and as a computer network engineer with 12 years in - I wouldn't waste my money on doofy "surge protectors" but a battery backup UPS is worth its weight in gold.

Thank you for all the info. It makes me a little more comfortable using it for more stuff. So based on that, wouldn't it be better to run a computer and stuff off an invertor connected to the onboard battery? so the battery would be buffering any fluctuations in current between the genset and the equipment?

[dwh]

So based on that, wouldn't it be better to run a computer and stuff off an invertor connected to the onboard battery? so the battery would be buffering any fluctuations in current between the genset and the equipment?

If it's a PSW (pure sine wave) inverter, then yea, you nailed it.

But if it's an MSW (modified square wave)[*] inverter, then it depends. Some devices do have problems with MSW.

Here's a quote from a page on the Powerstream web site:

http://www.powerstream.com/inFAQ.htm


Q: How do I know if I need a sine wave, or if I can live with a modified sine wave?
A: The following gadgets work well with a modified sine wave: computers, motor-driven appliances, toasters, coffee makers, most stereos, ink jet printers, refrigerators, TVs, VCRs, many microwave ovens, etc.

Appliances that are known to have problems with the modified sine wave are some digital clocks, some battery chargers, light dimmers, some battery operated gadgets that recharge in an AC recepticle, some chargers for hand tools (Makita is known to have this problem). In the case of hand tools, the problem chargers usually have a warning label stating that dangerous voltages are present at the battery terminals when charging. We would like to add to this FAQ any appliances that you have had trouble with, or had success with, using modified sine wave inverters.

Q: Why do I hear buzzing on my stereo when using a modified sine wave inverter?
A: Some inexpensive stereos use power supplies that cannot eliminate common-mode noise. These would require a sine wave inverter to operate noise-free.


[*](Marketing types have been trying to retrain everybody to believe that MSW stands for their more acceptable sounding hype of modified sine wave.

The first inverters were just a square wave. Later, they came up with a multi-step square wave, and called it a modified square wave. Which is true. Then, apparently some marketing genius noticed that a modified square wave sort of resembles a sine wave if you squint your eyes hard enough or stand back far enough when you look at the scope, and starting calling MSW modified sine wave. By now of course, most of the MSW inverter manufacturers have jumped on the BS bandwagon because they like that word 'sine' for its marketing value.

But, it's NOT a modified sine wave. If it were a sine wave, it wouldn't NEED to be modified.

Then, of course, they had to compound their BS by adding the word 'pure' to sine wave, to differentiate it from a MSW.

So really, there are three sorts of inverters - square wave, modified square wave, and sine wave. 'Modified Sine' and 'Pure Sine' are just marketroid BS and that actually mean 'Modified Square' and 'Sine'.)

[jeepfreak81]

Well it seemed to run my small 1cu ft (might be smaller) 750 watt microwave. I only ran it for 20 seconds, but the startup didn't trip the breaker.