cold weather and pop ups

[cyclist]

We have a Palomino bronco 800, with a heater, but it is still cold. We recently crossed the SW circuit of bolivia with -10F temps and it was in the single digits inside, way too cold. We had lots of issues with freezing everything from veggies to water to contacts.
If you want to do it, I would look for something with a diesel heater you can leave on overnight and lots of extra insulation.

[krj]

From a former FWC owner (loved it) who tried the winter camping thing (wouldn't do it again), here's my advice before you pull the plug and buy a pop-up for winter use.

First off, your going to need some materials to try this out.
A tent, Mr. Heater (or other moisture producing propane heater), cook stove, a set of saw horses, and a 4x8 sheet of plywood.
Before the next cold snap and snow storm, set the plywood on the sawhorses.
Set up the tent and put in the heater.
When you get back from skiing, or whatever you do during the winter, put all your cold, wet gear in the tent. Crawl in, crank up the heater, and cook dinner. What, no way to vent the moisture from cooking?! Get used to it, Sally.
When your done, go to sleep (did I mention in the 'materials' section that your going to need an extra blanket or two? No? My bad.)
In the middle of the night, get up, out of your 3 layers of blankets (yes, the heater is still on) and pee in a bottle.
In the morning, drag yourself out of said blankets, knock condensation from breath, propane heater, and cooking off fabric walls onto everything. As you wait for coffee to brew be sure to keep wrapped up in blankets (yes, the heater is still on) and dream about a warmer camper.
When all that is done, its time to "lower your camper". Remember the plywood and sawhorses? Yeah, this is where they come in.
Go out, squat under one end of the snow covered plywood and lift. Legs, not back! Lower. Move to the other side and repeat. Note: if you don't get an FWC, your back may not feel this exercise, but I bet the lifting mechanism of the camper will...
If this sounds like fun, then your well suited to winter camping in a pop-up, enjoy!

[AeroNautiCal]

It's in the works

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I'm a long term subscriber to your thread, mainly because I've been so impressed at how you addressed the issues I referred to.

I believe that your design, choice of materials and construction techniques overcome all of the downsides to the 'traditional' hard sided and fabric sided pop tops.

Then there's the reduced wear and tear, maintenance and set up/down time which your design benefits from, compared to the 'traditional' pop tops.

Composite construction with a foam core also has excellent strength, weight and insulation advantages, something aviation and marine designers and constructors have appreciated for some time.

It's not a coincidence that the most prolific composite camper constructor in the UK began life as boat builders!

I can't wait to see your first release XP CAMPER.

[Runt]

Easy....spent Alot of nights in my camper this last winter was always warm and comfortable. My camper had zero issues. You will get ice build up inside the camper along frame structure and inside on the pop up fabric. I wipped every thing down when the condensation formed and it helped. Trick is when your done camping to put a electric heater in the camper to dry it out.

[davidv]

I've had many sub freezing nights in my Hallmark and have had no problems staying warm. I second the comment the condensation is the bigger problem and don't know how a hard side camper would solve that issue.

Any one have experience with cold weather in a hardside that can compare?

[adam88]

I've had many sub freezing nights in my Hallmark and have had no problems staying warm. I second the comment the condensation is the bigger problem and don't know how a hard side camper would solve that issue.

Any one have experience with cold weather in a hardside that can compare?

I am building a hard sided camper and will be using it in extreme cold weather (down to -40 degrees). The only solution for fighting condensation I have found is two fold:

1) Avoid any metals being used on the interior of the camper (either full composite construction or wood)
2) A heater unit that has a fresh air exchange with outside air

This will basically eliminate condensation, with the exception of the windows, which there's isn't too much that can't be done about except the usual stuff. The FWC is a condensation king because of it's very thin aluminum frame + soft top pop-up. It would be difficult to find a camper that would have more condensation than an FWC in extreme cold. Heaters are also very important, and dry heat is critical with an air exchange. I am planning on using a webasto dual top diesel heater which should solve any issues, as it has a lot of BTU's, fresh air exchange and is nice dry heat.

[DanoT]

I am building a hard sided camper and will be using it in extreme cold weather (down to -40 degrees). The only solution for fighting condensation I have found is two fold:

1) Avoid any metals being used on the interior of the camper (either full composite construction or wood)
2) A heater unit that has a fresh air exchange with outside air

This will basically eliminate condensation, with the exception of the windows, which there's isn't too much that can't be done about except the usual stuff. The FWC is a condensation king because of it's very thin aluminum frame + soft top pop-up. It would be difficult to find a camper that would have more condensation than an FWC in extreme cold. Heaters are also very important, and dry heat is critical with an air exchange. I am planning on using a webasto dual top diesel heater which should solve any issues, as it has a lot of BTU's, fresh air exchange and is nice dry heat.

Do you know just how many BTUs the diesel heater puts out? 18 to 20k BTUs is probably what you need. Also I always have 2 roof vents cracked open no matter how cold outside, plus a small opening window in the fabric sidewall near my head is used a further airflow adjustment.

[adam88]

Do you know just how many BTUs the diesel heater puts out? 18 to 20k BTUs is probably what you need. Also I always have 2 roof vents cracked open no matter how cold outside, plus a small opening window in the fabric sidewall near my head is used a further airflow adjustment.

The diesel heater I plan to use (Webasto Dual Top) is a 1.5kw to 6.0kw diesel fired heater, so roughly 5000btu to 20,000btu. It should be more than enough power. Best of all, on high power, it only consumes 0.17 gallons of diesel fuel per hour. So even blasting on full overnight it will only consume about 1.5 gallons of diesel max. This is one of the main reasons I am going with a diesel heater. However, I do not think it will require 18-20k btu, since the interior of my camper is only going to be about 6.5'x6.5'x8.5', so around 359 cubic feet with roughly R7 or R8 insulation (taking into account the fiberglass).

[zidaro]

hallmark now offers reflectix sandwiched inside the tentsides too. I would LOVE to have that for the added insulation effect.

[johnnieev]

It's in the works

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I sent an e-mail to Marc (big dude at XP Camper) and he sent me a nice PDF file of this camper.

Wow!!! This is a nice little hard-side camper!! And the features are just about everything you could need for a nice off-road rig (or a winter pop-up camper). And Marc mentioned to me that they could add a couple additional items that I would be looking at.

Now I am trying to convince the wife to let me go ahead, get a "slightly" used Tacoma, convert it over to diesel, and then let Marc and XP Camper people work their magic. Given what I want to do it will be a little expensive, but man o'live it, it will be just what I am looking for that a family of three (wife, little son, and me) could use for camping out be it a VERY primative site or a campground year-round.......