2014 Tacoma to share design with HiLux ?

[zolo]

What the retro-grouch's idea of what will work, and Toyota's marketing plan are two different things. :ylsmoke: I don't see too many bare bones trucks running around, if people can qualify for the loan they will go bigger and more power. What I do see is a lot of V6 double cabs, with automatic trannys. A basic 2WD regular cab/manny/4 banger is becoming a rare bird my friend...and you know it. Sure there is a small niche for base model fleet vehicles, even so, that market is dominated by the F-150.

You're just grumpy you can't get what you want... I am guessing a 4WD diesel that fetches 30 mpg's, manual hubs, manual windows, manny trans, am radio with real dials, transfer case with a gawd damn lever!!!, vinyl flooring and seats, all for $20K....right? I would buy one, heck maybe two!

The 2012 Hi-Lux is darn near the same size as the Tacoma now, it would make no sense to sell them side by side here in the States. I guess the bloat is happening world wide now, the compact truck might never come back...maybe in the form of a uni-body ute, rumor has it that Scion version is coming, but I can just hear the hard core body on frame enthusiast complaining now...

Since crew/access cabs are becoming more popular than regular cabs. Today a brand new base model double cab V6 4WD is a smidge over $30K, I just don't see how Toyota can get the price point under $35K with going to a beefier frame and diesel, and that is a basic model, once you start adding TRD or Sport packages the price spikes.

Sure I am guessing at the price point, but if I am right that is fullsize truck territory.

I understand were you are coming from. However, the thread was never will Toyota sell them side by side. The question was will the Tacoma get some design and or beefy equipment from the Hilux. Mainly the D4D.
Also the Hilux is by no mean's near the same size of the Tacoma, it is narrower and not as long. It is a smaller truck with a bigger payload. Pretty much the opposite of what the US market demands. So the larger Tacoma with D4D would be great.

I would like to have one (Hilux) yes, or mainly a Tacoma with a D4d. That would be fine for me. I don't think anyone is grumpy really, just excited about the possibility of a little stouter Tacoma.

When I went to the dealer in Chile to ask about price for a D4D Hilux 4x4 it was the same price as a TRD 4x4 4door Tacoma. So I don't think your thought of could Toyota do it is much a question really. The answer is yes. They could do it.
But what Containerized stated about the tariff, that would be a factor. Obviously making the truck here in the US would be best for profit.
So if Toyota managed to build the Tacoma with D4D option in the US then yes I think the price point would be competitive and it would be popular.
Much as VW has had a growing demand for small diesel cars in the US.

If Toyota is going to redesign the Tacoma for 2014, then they will have the retooling cost already factored in. So adding a bit of payload and offering a D4D option isn't unrealistic to speculate. If its an option that solves all there problems. Diesel engines are an option for most 3/4 and 1 ton trucks as well as VW small cars. It cost more yes, but they still sell and I would gamble that Toyota could offer it as an option and they would sell just fine to those who understood the advantages and wanted the MPG and power gains. They would pay more and get what they wanted.

At least that's my rambling thoughts on it. Id like to see it happen. It would be a huge step forward for clean small diesels.
I think its a more realistic and cleaner plan for automotive future over battery powered cars.
Battery's are dirty to make and to dispose of. Diesels can be clean efficient and rarely need disposed of. IMHO

(BTW, I'm basing a lot of this on the one country Ive been that had the HiLux. After driving one for a while and asking about price. So I'm by to means a HiLux expert just stating what I was told, what I saw, and what I experienced with the truck against my own Tacoma. So don't tear me apart to much)

 

[Containerized]

I believe many fewer Tacos are built in Mexico than in San Antonio... Sojourn's numbers sound about right.

All the beds are build in Mexico, if I recall correctly, even the ones for the U.S.-built trucks, since the nasty chemicals used in making the composite bed, etc. would offend the EPA.

 

[Clutch]

I understand were you are coming from. However, the thread was never will Toyota sell them side by side. The question was will the Tacoma get some design and or beefy equipment from the Hilux. Mainly the D4D.
Also the Hilux is by no mean's near the same size of the Tacoma, it is narrower and not as long. It is a smaller truck with a bigger payload. Pretty much the opposite of what the US market demands. So the larger Tacoma with D4D would be great.

I would like to have one (Hilux) yes, or mainly a Tacoma with a D4d. That would be fine for me. I don't think anyone is grumpy really, just excited about the possibility of a little stouter Tacoma.

When I went to the dealer in Chile to ask about price for a D4D Hilux 4x4 it was the same price as a TRD 4x4 4door Tacoma. So I don't think your thought of could Toyota do it is much a question really. The answer is yes. They could do it.
But what Containerized stated about the tariff, that would be a factor. Obviously making the truck here in the US would be best for profit.
So if Toyota managed to build the Tacoma with D4D option in the US then yes I think the price point would be competitive and it would be popular.
Much as VW has had a growing demand for small diesel cars in the US.

If Toyota is going to redesign the Tacoma for 2014, then they will have the retooling cost already factored in. So adding a bit of payload and offering a D4D option isn't unrealistic to speculate. If its an option that solves all there problems. Diesel engines are an option for most 3/4 and 1 ton trucks as well as VW small cars. It cost more yes, but they still sell and I would gamble that Toyota could offer it as an option and they would sell just fine to those who understood the advantages and wanted the MPG and power gains. They would pay more and get what they wanted.

At least that's my rambling thoughts on it. Id like to see it happen. It would be a huge step forward for clean small diesels.
I think its a more realistic and cleaner plan for automotive future over battery powered cars.
Battery's are dirty to make and to dispose of. Diesels can be clean efficient and rarely need disposed of. IMHO

(BTW, I'm basing a lot of this on the one country Ive been that had the HiLux. After driving one for a while and asking about price. So I'm by to means a HiLux expert just stating what I was told, what I saw, and what I experienced with the truck against my own Tacoma. So don't tear me apart to much)

I was giving Dave in Denver a hard time (all in good fun) since he is the resident toyota savant retro-grouch. He has been crying about what Toyota "should do" for years! I think he'll get the joke...at least I hope he did. :ylsmoke:


Now I said "similar" in size, not exactly...the the 2012 Hi-Lux is actually wider than the Taco.

2012 Hi-Lux DCSB:

Length: 202"
Track: 69"
Wheel base: 121"


2012 Tacoma DCSB

Length: 208"
Track: 63"
Wheelbase: 127"


Pretty damn close to me, I dunno, makes no sense for Toyota sell those side by side here in the USA. Now a LC70 with the Tacoma would make perfect sense, but the 70 it would battle it out with the Tundra...

I am basing my guesstimates on a base model 4WD DCSB Taco, and what VW charges for their TDI upgrade, roughly $3-4000.
So if the Tacoma did receive the D4D, that is an easy $3500 up charge, right there with Ford EcoBoost F150.

Sure there would be a niche for it, not saying it wouldn't sell, I just don't think it is going to sell as much as you guys think it will. You'll get a bunch of guys saying they would buy one, but won't because they don't have the money to.

And hey I have been driving Toyotas 23 years now, I really like them, but I am having a hard time since the numbers are so close between a new Taco and a Domestic 1/2 ton....just get more truck for nearly the same money. I am not really a diesel guy per say, so the D4D really means nothing to me. A DCSB Ford EcoBoost makes more financial/needs sense, than DCSB Taco...

 

[zolo]

I figured you would come out with the exact numbers. I guess I drove a 2010 maybe 2011? HiLux and it seemed way narrower than my Tacoma. I doubt it was a 2012. So I stand corrected about the size, in width.
It drove, looked, and seemed smaller than my Tacoma. I have a late gen Tacoma now in the shop and it seems huge compared to the truck I had in SA.

I just cant seem to compare a US Ford Eco boost truck to a US Toyota. When it comes time to actually take the truck on rough track the Ford or Chevy just seem like they are a different animal compared to a Toyota. So for me its not even fair to compare the trucks.

Since I seem to be turning into a diesel guy and having driven the D4D I would welcome the offering. I personally wouldn't even consider a Ford for anything. About the only US spec truck I'd buy is a Cummin's powered Dodge.

 

[Clutch]

Yeah, I see Hi-Luxes here all the time up from Mexico...actually a guy two streets over has one sitting in his driveway during the school semester.

That model a 2006-11? is yes, smaller than the Tacoma, and I don't really see what the fuss is all about, except the higher capacities. As Dave in Denver suggests, selling a Hi-Lux along side a Tacoma...now that they are nearly identical in size, and the only real difference is capacity. Man, I am just not seeing it. Either one or the other, or bump up the capacity on the Taco (and toss in that mythical D4D), so if they do that, your flirting with fullsize capabilities and cost.

When I mention a Domestic 1/2 ton to the Tacoma, sure different platforms, I am comparing how much bang for your buck. If I had $35K burning a hole in my pocket, as much as I love Tacomas...I think I would do an Eco F150 over diesel Tacoma. Have you driven an Ecoboost? They are impressive!

As for the D4D...if I was a betting man, I would put my money on direct injection turboed gasser in a Tacoma first, before the USA saw glimpse of a diesel...

 

[zolo]

I bet living in SoAZ you get a mix of trucks.
Last I was down that way I was protecting Kitt Peak Observatory and all I saw was USFS GOV rigs Border rigs and smoke.:wings:

Well I suppose we shale see what Toyota comes up with. I feel you on the direct Injection. I cant believe more company's don't do that with everything. That should be a given as far as I'm concerned. Its diesel technology in a gas motor.:ylsmoke:

 

[Plannerman]

So the beds are built in Mexico now? A 2009-2010, they were all built here in Long Beach, Ca


Sent via fat thumb

 

[Containerized]

Planner - I'd heard they were all Mexico-built now, primarily for environmental reasons. Something about the resin system used for the bed.

Probably the same reason certain Prius assemblies are built in Mexico - they're nasty for the environment (not to mention the environmental effects of dumping the car and the non-recyclable batteries into the landfill at the end of the vehicle's life...).

 

[Clutch]

I bet living in SoAZ you get a mix of trucks.
Last I was down that way I was protecting Kitt Peak Observatory and all I saw was USFS GOV rigs Border rigs and smoke.:wings:

Well I suppose we shale see what Toyota comes up with. I feel you on the direct Injection. I cant believe more company's don't do that with everything. That should be a given as far as I'm concerned. Its diesel technology in a gas motor.:ylsmoke:

We get all kinds down here. I have seen a 4 door Ford Ranger twice in the past two days. Had a mine or rail road safety flag on it. Hi-Luxes are starting to pop up
here and there. UofA semester is right around the corner. Kids up from Mexico going to college, no diesels though, and no 2012's (yet) I'll take a picture of my Taco next to one if I get a chance.

I am not too far from the BP station at Davis Montham...an overlander's wetdream....diesel 3/4-1 tons, JK's, Raptors, 4WD vans, Hummers...it is like a giant toy box.

And plenty of classics still running around, my 'hood alone there are bunches. There is Landy 110 in my hood...I have only seen it running once...then broken down the same day along side the road. Sits in a carport mostly. Have been seeing a 109 running around too. There is an exo-cage white 110 running around as well...remember that one well, she cut me off one day when I was hauling a load of firewood...not cool lady! :ylsmoke:


Time will tell what Toyota has up their sleeve...they better up the ante though. (or maybe I should rephrase that)...perhaps turn down the ante...by making a basic 4WD body on frame compact truck that is under $25K....

 

[zolo]

Planner
Probably the same reason certain Prius assemblies are built in Mexico - they're nasty for the environment (not to mention the environmental effects of dumping the car and the non-recyclable batteries into the landfill at the end of the vehicle's life...).

LOL Yes I agree with this!!! Its so true!!!

 

[Rattler]

I was invited with my Tacoma down to the Toyota Techncal Center in Saline, MI for an employee's car show a couple weeks ago. I believe there were 5 total invites. I had several engineers poking away at my bedliner for some reason. It was a doube-coat job by a friend that was running the place at the time I had it done. They showed quite a bit of interest in the rooftop tent too.

Anyway, I was speaking with teh engineer that inited me. He told me they are designing teh next gen. Taco there and wondered if I had any input. I told im "Wel the off the top of my had are diesel, diesel and diesel." He told me 3 of the other invites basically said th same thing.

 

[cam-shaft]

I was invited with my Tacoma down to the Toyota Techncal Center in Saline, MI for an employee's car show a couple weeks ago. I believe there were 5 total invites. I had several engineers poking away at my bedliner for some reason. It was a doube-coat job by a friend that was running the place at the time I had it done. They showed quite a bit of interest in the rooftop tent too.

Anyway, I was speaking with teh engineer that inited me. He told me they are designing teh next gen. Taco there and wondered if I had any input. I told im "Wel the off the top of my had are diesel, diesel and diesel." He told me 3 of the other invites basically said th same thing.

Glad to hear it. Engineers unfortunately do not have much say on the project type. Such as a diesel being installed in the tacoma. Engineers just want to engineer to their fullest, you are always fighting the accountants with project cost and what the market will bear and want. What do I know about big business I am just a small business owner anyways? I still think any input to toyota one can get is valuable. I would like to hear more people talk about heavier duty frames. The diesel would be great for longevity and trip fuel mileage, but as far as fuel mileage vs increased cost between gas motor and diesel it is kinda a wash money wise, but if they can market it as green (LOL) then they may be on to something. I do think toyota needs to stop wasting their money with these so called baja packages and make a true offroad HD package, however they have appealed to the young guys financing their life so that they can own a tacoma, I guess. Hopefully toyota will be reading this thread because I would buy a diesel offroad HD package. HD meaning frame and manual locking hubs. Ford still does it (manual locking hubs) why cant you?

Cam-shaft.

 

[Rattler]

Glad to hear it. Engineers unfortunately do not have much say on the project type. Such as a diesel being installed in the tacoma. Engineers just want to engineer to their fullest, you are always fighting the accountants with project cost and what the market will bear and want. What do I know about big business I am just a small business owner anyways? I still think any input to toyota one can get is valuable. I would like to hear more people talk about heavier duty frames. The diesel would be great for longevity and trip fuel mileage, but as far as fuel mileage vs increased cost between gas motor and diesel it is kinda a wash money wise, but if they can market it as green (LOL) then they may be on to something. I do think toyota needs to stop wasting their money with these so called baja packages and make a true offroad HD package, however they have appealed to the young guys financing their life so that they can own a tacoma, I guess. Hopefully toyota will be reading this thread because I would buy a diesel offroad HD package. HD meaning frame and manual locking hubs. Ford still does it (manual locking hubs) why cant you?

Cam-shaft.

Maybe I will shoot Rob an email with that and tell him I have been thinking more about it.

 

[Dipodomys]

I've seen a lot of HiLux's while in Australia and they have some impressive features but also a few drawbacks when compared to the Tacoma. The Tacoma is highly geared towards the American market and is much more cushy. It's also larger and therefore more comfortable for our supersized American bodies. The HiLux retains its mini-truck roots and is more reminiscent of a 1980's vintage Toyota pickup. Though I love my Tacoma, I recognize that it is light duty in many respects. The HiLux is more rugged, and would almost certainly hold up better under arduous conditions than a Tacoma. Put another way, the Tacoma is made for occassional weekends out camping, whereas the HiLux and non-USA Landcruiser models are built for everyday use getting beat around on 100,000-acre cattle stations, at mining operations, or crossing raging rivers. Some of these vehicles in Australia and elsewhere never see pavement. They aren't recreational vehicles like ours, but are instead a working tool used for commercial uses. For the most part, Americans don't use their vehicles like that. It's just a different environment here in the U.S., and the Tacoma was designed and marketed accordingly. For better or for worse, that seems to be the way it is.

 

[NM-Frontier]

Glad to hear it. Engineers unfortunately do not have much say on the project type. Such as a diesel being installed in the tacoma. Engineers just want to engineer to their fullest, you are always fighting the accountants with project cost and what the market will bear and want. What do I know about big business I am just a small business owner anyways? I still think any input to toyota one can get is valuable. I would like to hear more people talk about heavier duty frames. The diesel would be great for longevity and trip fuel mileage, but as far as fuel mileage vs increased cost between gas motor and diesel it is kinda a wash money wise, but if they can market it as green (LOL) then they may be on to something. I do think toyota needs to stop wasting their money with these so called baja packages and make a true offroad HD package, however they have appealed to the young guys financing their life so that they can own a tacoma, I guess. Hopefully toyota will be reading this thread because I would buy a diesel offroad HD package. HD meaning frame and manual locking hubs. Ford still does it (manual locking hubs) why cant you?

Cam-shaft.

Very well put, having a Hilux like HD package would be ideal, we don't need any more flashy wheels and graphics packages just the real deal goods please.