Winch extension strap - which load rating?

hokiruu

New member
I have a 1st gen. Tacoma that will be loaded down pretty well with armor, gear and 8000lb winch. I just saw the "make your own line" thread but I just dont have time for that right now nor do I trust myself enough. I ordered an ARB winch extension strap for it and then realized it was rated to 9900lb. It occurred to me that if I am using a snatch block the pulling force could be greater than 9900lb. So then I ordered the 17500lb strap and upon receiving it ,it's HUGE, plus someone said a strap rated to high could result in damage instead of failing when too much force is applied, and I'm wondering if this is overkill. I'm not sure which strap to return. Advice is greatly appreciated.
 

LR Max

Local Oaf
I carry 50ft of 3/8" Masterpull line as my winch extension. As compact as 50ft of 3/8" line and very lightweight. Overall fairly compact. It just has eyes on either end, no hooks or anything fancy like that.

What part of the US are you in? Here on the east coast, I've never seen anyone use more than 100ft of line. My winch extension is still brand new, in the bag (about 10 years old). Never used it nor have ever needed it.
 

Antichrist

Expedition Leader
someone said a strap rated to high could result in damage instead of failing when too much force is applied, and I'm wondering if this is overkill.
What damage did they say it would cause?
You have an electric winch and it will stall at some load point. Which would you rather have, your winch to stall, or your rigging to fail?
I know which I'd choose.
 

Eventhough

Explorer
What damage did they say it would cause?
You have an electric winch and it will stall at some load point. Which would you rather have, your winch to stall, or your rigging to fail?
I know which I'd choose.

What he said about your winch stalling.

When you double your pulling power with a block the extra force is effectively split on your bumper or bumper area between the winch and the attachment point back to your vehicle. The load is doubled and not split at the pulley/block and the attachment to your other fixed point - possibly a tree.

I prefer using a winch line extension so you have identical components - a winch line and a winch line extension made out of winch line. If you are using a strap (which is OK) as a winch line extension I prefer polyester because it typically stretches less than nylon and will keep your winching more of a static and not as much of a dynamic environment. If using a strap as a winch line extension compare apples to apples as best you can with ratings. What kind of winch line are you using and what is it's average break strength? What kind of winch line extension strap are you using and what is it's average break strength?

I'd very much prefer my winch to stall then for a line to break. You do NOT want a line to break when winching - synthetic or steel.
 

hokiruu

New member
Thank you for the replies, they are very helpful.
I carry 50ft of 3/8" Masterpull line as my winch extension. As compact as 50ft of 3/8" line and very lightweight. Overall fairly compact. It just has eyes on either end, no hooks or anything fancy like that.

What part of the US are you in? Here on the east coast, I've never seen anyone use more than 100ft of line. My winch extension is still brand new, in the bag (about 10 years old). Never used it nor have ever needed it.

I guess getting a real winch line extension would be ideal, I may consider that. I'm in Northern California and plan to head into the Sierras and there are usually trees and rocks, but I wanted this in case I get stuck in an open area above treeline.

What damage did they say it would cause?
You have an electric winch and it will stall at some load point. Which would you rather have, your winch to stall, or your rigging to fail?
I know which I'd choose.

Excellent points. I don't think they were very knowledgeable and their opinion about damage is moot given the stall point you brought up.

So from this I gather that I should ideally use the same line as my winch line, but regarding these straps, either one would work fine but I should err on the safe side and use the heavier duty one?
 
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Master-Pull

Supporting Sponsor
If the strap is going to stretch at all, use something that is stronger then your winch line.

Also using just one block will not double your pulling power, it will just cause you to use more line. However, if you run your line out to someone else and are winching them towards you, you can use a single block to double your power. But when you just put one block to a tree and bring it back you are not going to double your pulling power. To do that you need to put a second block on your bumper and run it back out to the tree.

-Alex
 

Master-Pull

Supporting Sponsor
That video illustrates my post very well. So 1 block is good for changing the direction of your pull, but 2 are needed if you want to do a 2:1 mechanical advantage. Another way to determine if you have mechanical advantage is to check the number of lines supporting the weight against the line you are pulling. Using 1 block you have one line supporting the weight and 1 line pulling, meaning it is 1:1. If you put a second block on your bumper and run back out and anchor the line you now have 2 lines supporting the weight, and 1 line pulling. Making it a 2:1 mechanical advantage.

-Alex
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Ummmmmmmmmm.....

Situation one. If you take the winch line and run it through a snatch block mounted to a fixed object and then back to your vehicle you have a 2:1 advantage. To pull the vehicle X amount of distance you are going to have to take up 2X the distance in cable. I'm pretty sure that is a mechanical advantage.

Situation two. If you where take the winch line front the vehicle, to a snatch block mounted to a fixed object, back to your vehicle where you mounted another snatch block, and then back to the fixed object you have a 3:1 advantage. You have to take in 3X the amount of cable to move the vehicle X feet.

Am I missing something here?
 

Master-Pull

Supporting Sponsor

This helps to explain it some more. Go out and hang a pulley up from a beam and run a rope through it. If you put an equal load on each side of the pulley it will be balanced and the ropes wont move, showing that there is no mechanical advantage.

If you have a second pulley, run one end of the ropes through it and anchor the rope back up to the beam and then hang equal weights off the end of the rope and the pulley you will see movement. The weight that is hanging off the pulley will have a 2:1 force over the weight that is just hanging off the line, pulling it down.

-Alex
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
The difference is you need to be 'on' the weight you are trying to lift though? Not removed from it. The pulley is in essence 'moving' relative to your position.

So your basically saying these two cases result in the same winch load?

A- I take the winch and connect it to a 4000lb load.
B-I take the winch and connect it to a 4000lb load, BUT I also attach a snatch block and run the line back to the vehicle.

In case A you are directly moving 4000lbs of load via the winch line. Every foot of winch line the winch spools equals one foot of movement for the 4000lb load.

In case B you are indirectly moving the 4000lbs of load via the winch line. For every foot of winch line that spools equals only 1/2 foot of movement for the 4000lb load.

From the U.S. Army driving manual chapter 22 - vehicle recovery.
You can check it out here.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/US Army driving manual vehicle recovery ch22.pdf

002.png


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You can also see reference here....

http://cdn.shptrn.com/media/mfg/437...ostPeopleDontKnowAboutWinching.pdf?1289591024
 

Antichrist

Expedition Leader
Actually, in the video I posted the sheave on the ceiling is your winch drum.
Think of it as a capstan winch and it will be clearer.
 

Master-Pull

Supporting Sponsor
Those two are different, and not the same scenario that I was talking about on the last page. The scenario you are describing where you are using a pulley to move an object towards you from a fixed winch point. That scenario allows one pulley to be used to gain a 2:1 mechanical advantage.

In this video you can see the difference.


-Alex
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
It doesn't matter if the load is something hooked to the vehicle or the vehicle is the load and hooked to a stationary point recovering itself, same mechanical leverage applies.

What situation are you referring to then?
 

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