Considering London, wondering about vehicle

[cweight]

Greetings all,

We are considering moving to London (from Seattle) for a couple of years. I am trying to sort out costs and one big cost factor is of course a vehicle. I did a very quick online search, which showed that Seattle annual TCO is $2500-$4000 whereas in England it is about 4400 Pounds, roughly twice as much. So I understand the cost difference, I am trying to understand the need difference, so to speak.

I have always lived where a vehicle is required (at least if you explore and get outdoors a lot), but one can clearly get around much better London/UK/Europe without a vehicle than you can in the vast majority of the US. But how true is this if you spend most of your free time exploring, getting out, trying to poke around into less traveled corners? I am trying to gauge how long we (2 adults and a 4 year old) can make do without a vehicle. We would be living in East London and would use Flexcar for daily trips, so this vehicle would be strictly for weekends of biking, hiking, kayaking, etc and for vacation.

Advice and comments much appreciated.

Cheers,
Chris.

 

[Gren_T]

Hi Chris, your right you can get around easily in london.
However once outside the london area public transport is ok but expensive, you will be able to take your bikes on the train to anywhere in the uk but I don't know about a kayak.!
If you want to explore you will need your own wheels as the more interesting places traditionally have poor public transport links.

Regards

Gren

 

[redneck44]

If you want to go anywhere in a reasonable time at the weekend you need a vehicle, if you want to carry any equipment then you need a vehicle, if you want to go off the beaten track you need a vehicle.
Don't forget to factor in the London LEZ as well.

You can get to the larger towns and cities fairly easily but getting out further is not easy. I live 1 1/2 hours drive from London but to get there via public transport would involve a local bus journey 40-50 minutes, a train ride 30 minutes, and another train ride 45 minutes, on the U.K's fastest train (used to be 90 minutes). None of this is integrated so the waiting time between services can be long.

One question though, if your an outdoor/explorer kind of person why would you want to move to London or the U.K.?

 

[cweight]

On the LEZ... I thought that only applied to larger vehicles, not private cars... when/how does the LEZ affect me personally? (BTW, in case you checked my sig, I was not planning to bring the troopy)

Thanks for that comparison of public transit versus driving time - that is exactly what I was afraid of.

"why would you want to move to London or the U.K.?" My company is expanding the London office - a good job in a city we would like to live in is an opportunity that does not come along often. And while we spend lots of time outdoors, that isn't all we do. We also like the sorts of things that London and Europe in general can offer: food, history, cathedrals. On the outdoor side, before getting serious about London, I did some poking around and found lots to keep us entertained and in shape. I found biking clubs doing both mountain and road bike trips pretty much every weekend, walking/hiking clubs going somewhere almost every weekend, cross-country ski clubs heading to France and Finland. I browsed some books on walking in Wales and Scotland, which looked great, and checked price of flights to Switzerland and Austria for skiing. To live in London and to get out regularly on these sorts of trips will cost considerably more than we are used to, but we see that as the price to pay in order to live somewhere new, and get a chance to really explore a part of the world we've only been able to visit for a few weeks at a time previously.

 

[Christian P.]

Chris

Go for it - London is awesome, I doubt you would regret it.

Don't worry about the car, I found out that cars are generally cheaper in UK than they are in California. Or perhaps not cheaper but overall in better condition because of the annual MOT. Check this thread, I bought a C-Class 2002 with 88000 miles for 2800 pounds in perfect condition. This one has the larger engine which means insurance and road tax are more expensive - 600 pounds and 240 pounds/year. So even at this point, I can't imagine where this 4400/year comes from, unless they include fuel.

By the way, where is your troopy now? In North America or Europe? Maybe we could work out a trade...



Actually, I may sell it back if you need a car...

 

[redneck44]

LEZ can affect some Land rovers if your thinking about one, also the congestion zone charges can apply.

Don't let me put you off, living in the U.K I'm always looking to go somewhere else, and my short time spent in the U.S made me wonder why anyone would want to leave there.

 

[roamingyak]

My 2 cents ;-)

- You don't need a car in London at all, but it depends a little on where you live and if you need to bring food for 6 people home every day on the bus etc.
- Most places charge you about £100 per year to park on the street (parking permit from council).
- Driving in London sucks. Actually in most of the UK it isn't much fun, crowded and small roads.
- There are trains and buses to most places that you will likely want to visit when you first get here, so no hurry.
- Cars are almost always parked on the road, this with the crowded driving conditions means for me it is best to buy an old banger - £1,000-£3,000 gets you something older but perfectly comfortable. Then its much less stress where you park it etc.
- Driving in Europe, especially the south is much nicer. From east London you can be in France easily inside 3 hours with the Euro tunnel.
- Mechanics will often overcharge here, I don;t trust any of them, so ask for recommendations for colleagues.

 

[Sirocco]

Agree with all of the above. I would avoid the LEZ and living within it if you plan to take a bigger vehicle/4x4. What about somwhere along the commuter belt? If your near a major train station you can be in Paddington in no time. Its 1.40hrs direct from here in Bristol which is over 100 miles away! So somewhere closer like Reading and you would be there in 20-40min. Its more the distance from your house to station that is the problem. If you ride a bike, no problem!

Outside London is great, Check my Facebook pictures out for some offroad trips to Wales, the Lake District, Peak District etc. Give you a taste for what is like here when you get out of the city.

G

 

[AeroNautiCal]

In truth, as a couple with a young child, having your own vehicle will give you all the choice you'll want... And you will want it!

Whilst public transport in London is generally good, it's also very expensive. And can be time consuming.

Coming from the US, our fuel prices may make you cry!

Having a vehicle you can travel and camp in will not only make your money go further, it will give you complete autonomy and help you to do more with your time, and will enhance that time.

There are a surprising amount of waterways and kayak/canoe clubs in London, (some of whom have weekly kayak trips on the River Thames) and you just need to turn up and they'll supply all the kit and kayak, so these can be visited without a vehicle.

Cycling is very popular here.

 

[Containerized]

I spent years in London as a student and never once missed having a vehicle.

You can always team up with mates and get a 4x4 for the weekend or borrow one from friends of friends; we did this often.

Owning a vehicle in EC1 or NW5 (where I lived), you'd pay through the nose and wait ages to get out of town.

Best option was to phone up friends at Oxford (two of whom had Defenders) and take the train up to meet them!

You'll figure it out once you get there. London is infinitely more of a city than Seattle, it really is the capital of Europe. Seattle is... well, a rainy village.

 

[nick disjunkt]

Hi Chris,

I live in Tottenham and I've lived in London my whole life, here is my opinion.

You don't need a car in London at all. Almost all journeys, except perhaps moving circumfrentially (is that a word?) around the outer suburbs, are quicker by public transport. Journeys of less than 10 miles in central London are usually quicker still by bike. I own a car, but I use it about 2 or 3 times a month, usually when travelling out of London. A car can of course be usefull for buying bulky stuff, or travelling at night (I wouldn't take a child on the night bus!), but many people in London get by fine without one.

For outdoor pursuits out of London, a car is definately the most practical way of getting around. You would get by without one, but I expect you would end up using taxi's a fair bit, and would have difficulty seeing some of the most beautiful parts of the UK. I cannot imagine visiting the Lake District, or North Corwall by public transport.

With regard to costs. Unless you want a commercial vehicle like a van or truck, the LEZ wont apply, it only applies to 4x4s with no windows or seats in the back. The congestion charging zone only applies during the day in central London, and you would be mad to drive into central London during the day unless you were being paid anyway. Tax is pretty cheap (engine dependant) but this is because the real cost is on fuel duty. I think you will also be suprised at the cost of insurance, and may struggle to find people willuing to insure you as a foreign national without a UK licence.

Parking across London is very variable. Most tourist areas and shopping streets will charge through the nose for parking. In residential areas, some boroughs require a residents permit everywhere (around £100 per year) to aprk on the street, some boroughs only in certain areas, and some have pretty much no restrictions. Most restrictions finish after 6.30pm so if you want to visit places in the evening, driving is not such a stupid proposition as it is in the day.

Feel free to get in touch if you come to London, maybe I can help you out with getting to know it.

Nick

 

[nick disjunkt]

As roamingyak said, if you come to London, don't forget how close the rest of Europe is. You can be in the Alps or even Prague in a day's drive, or on the French riviera, or Barcelona in a day and a half! You can pass through 5 countries with 5 different languages in the distance people drive for a taco in America!

 

[cweight]

Just a follow-up... we are indeed heading the the UK. We will live in St Albans and I will commute into London on the train. We will indeed be getting a vehicle, but have not yet decided what kind. We are seriously considering getting a VW camper van. By way of odd coincidence, both my wife and I went to Europe as kids, where our parents bought a VW camper van and traveled all around Europe and then shipped the camper van back to the States and kept it. So we both have fond memories of living in a VW.

 

[ColinTheCop]

Here in the UK the VW seems to command a big price hike compared to other similar vehicle.

I understand if you want one for nostalgia reasons, but there are similar vehicles at a fraction of the price of a similar age/spec VW.

Check out the UK Ebay site and have a look at,

Mercedes Vito
Renault Traffic
Vauxhall Vivaro

Are 3 of the main contenders from the top of my head.