What do I do?

goodtimes

Expedition Poseur
Okay, first you are saying there are no good gas HD truck chassis. I show you there is virtually no difference between gas and diesel chassis and provide examples where gas chassis are used in real world “work” and you shot holes in it every time. Your personal observations are made through some sort of odd eye glasses that only you can see through but it is entertaining. Again, the HD pickup truck chassis from GM, Dodge and Ford are the same between gas and diesel outside of such small items to even speak about and those items sure don't make the chassis any more robust. You my friend, make absolutely no sense in your observations or comments and apparently lack industry experience. LOL…only a friend will tell ya :eek:rngartis

Your story. Tell it how you want it.



:beer:




**edit for clarity: No snarkiness intended. It's obvious that your opinions are different than mine & the world still goes 'roundy-roundy. The next beer's on me.
 
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UHAULER

Explorer
.......
pre 6.0L PSD ford - lots of crew cab 7.3L fords out there, however, my mechanic mentioned it is tough to get those engines over 12mpg (14mpg and you are doing great!). I have not heard a lot about this, but he has nothing to gain from telling me this info, so no reason to lie. In my (half assed) attempt at something somewhat environmental, this seems like a pretty big ding as I am getting around 20mpg with the duramax (not great, but not 12mpg)


I think most 7.3 powerjokes get better than that. I have a stock 02 f350 supercab shortbed and get about 16-17 mpg. I too got sucked into the "want a diesel"

I've had two ford f250 idi diesels in the past but this is probably the last diesel I will own.

Give me a 1/2 ton, gas,extra cab , manual trans and strait front axle with real hubs and spindles.
 

zoomad75

K5 Camper guy
Might this be because there are more diesel trucks than gas trucks? As noted:

so as an example, if there are lots of 3/4ton (and most of those have diesel). These issues with 3/4ton pickups would just happen to be more frequently a diesel issue. ?We see more diesel 3/4 tons than the gassers for sure. That would make the number look like the issues are diesel related. We see the same long term chassis issues regardless of what engine sits under the hood.

Also, I wonder if there are fewer diesel techs out there, therefore fewer at each dealer (or none) and therefore a diesel issue is a much bigger problem, and more costly, than a comparable gas engine issue. ?? At our shop we have 3 out of my 4 techs (little shop, like I said) fully certified on Dmax and carry the new ASE light duty diesel certification. They way GM looks at things now if you don't have a tech fully certified you don't get any option for extra time if repairs are out of the box. Most shops should have multiple light duty diesel techs.

Could it also be attributed to how easy it is to make monster power numbers with simple tuners? I don't chip mine, but it is so easy to get those already high numbers sky high with the push of a button. That cannot be good for longevity and could be the death of so many diesels before their time. Any modification comes with a compromise. Increase power and durability suffers. If one want's silly power numbers more mods are needed to beef up the head bolts, head gaskets and the rest of the bottom end to give that best ability to survive. Chips now can bring more power than they ever could and even can exceed the limits of the stock bottom ends and head bolts. It's almost too easy to get silly power numbers now.

In terms of high mileage diesel engines, I know these aren't the same, but why can't a diesel pickup diesel get the same kind of miles as a long haul truck? Do pickup owners tend to slack more on regular maintenance? Do those truckers just fork over huge cash to keep their rigs running? I know they are hauling huge loads all the time, but seems like if they can get super high miles from their engines, so can I. A class 8 diesel is a different animal than the light duty diesel cousins. Those are built to run 500,000 miles plus. Everything is larger from the crank to the block. Cylinders are replaceable and engines can be rebuilt in the chassis. That's not so say the light duty versions can run a long way. Most of that depends on regular maintenance and keeping an eye on things. We have a local customer that has an earlier LB7 d-max dually that had 345,000 miles on it when it came into us for injectors. It was the 3rd set of injectors and outside of oil changes and flushing the coolant at the 100k mile marks it didn't need anything else. This guy delivers 5th wheel trailers for a living and racks the miles up.


As far as longevity, if the chassis are the same and just the engine is the issue, what if all the emissions stuff has been removed, or wasn't there to begin with (like my list I posted above)? Would that push the advantage back to the diesel engine? What if the regular maintenance schedule was altered to suit a diesel powertrain would that push the diesel back in front? What could I do to make the diesel more reliable than it's comparable gas counterpart? If we are talking about chassis issues, again the engine really don't matter. As far as durability of a gas engine vs a de-emission diesel they are pretty close. At least with my experience with the GM stuff. Maintenance is the key. GM LS-small blocks are amazing pushrod gas engines. Just wait until the direct injected versions come out. If it's anything like the DI 3.6L v6 or ecotec 4's the power is amazing. That bump in power should translate well to the V8 lineup.


Damn Larry, you are shooting my diesel dreams all to heck! :) Larry is a dream killer. LOL.


Truthfully, this is what I think would suit me best (minus all the govts annoying meddling), but again, can't get it.

(changing pace)

What are some thoughts on the IFS? I know they get a bad rap most of the time, but in my readings/research, I have heard numerous times that if you leave an IFS truck at stock height with stock tires, the IFS ends up costing less and being less hassle than a SFA. Major issues arise when people try and jack an IFS truck up. I figure, if you want a 6" lift on a truck, go SFA, but if you want a 'lower' cost front end and are willing to leave it alone, go with IFS. Also, why does a truck have to rattle your teeth out? Can't they make a robust truck rides nice? I really am not concerned with ride comfort (but maybe I am spoiled with the IFS), but seems like if you can make it right, you can also have it ride right. Doesn't need sport handling and all the leather and electric this and that, but improving ride comfort over long drives could reduce driver fatigue. That can't be a bad thing IFS isn't as durable as a SFA off road in the long run, but the less you screw with them the longer they live as far as mods go. Ride quality has more to do with spring rate/choice than the type of axle under it. Crank torsion bars up on an IFS and it will rattle your bones when it was smooth before. On the flip side SFA's can ride quite nice with the right leaf spring or coil spring choice. Larry's truck is a great example. His suspension is dialed. Rides smooth on pavement and takes no prisoners off road. It didn't always ride like that. Many moons ago when we were out of college and working in Detroit we'd take big blue out to lunch and I would have thought a buckboard wagon might ride better on Detroit's nasty broken roads.


See my responses above...
 

Larry

Bigassgas Explorer
Quote Originally Posted by Larry View Post

...which powertrain surfaces with more issues at 100K, a gas or diesel. The diesel powertrain will be the first place winner with costly issues over a gas any day...

Might this be because there are more diesel trucks than gas trucks? =613Duramax

That is not what I was saying. I said “Ask any dealer (GM, Ford, Dodge) which powertrain surfaces with more issues at 100K, a gas or diesel”….not which darkens their doorway most often. None the less, to say there are more GM diesels on the road than gas isn’t quite accurate either in the grand scheme of things. In the HD pickups, yes, that may be true but across the vehicle line up of GM light trucks (even HD trucks are considered light trucks) SUVs, and full-size vans, and distant GM relatives like Workhorse Custom Chassis and Isuzu cab forward trucks there are just as many, if not more, GM gas V8 engines on the road than GM Dirtymax’s.

All of the above gas vehicles use the same engine architecture from 4.8L to 6.2L’s that would be used in a GM HD truck. Add the 8.1L in GM HD trucks, GM medium duty trucks and Workhorse RV’s to the list above and that is a lot of gas engines rolling around out there in high GVWR vehicles. You just don’t hear of major issues with the gas engines as you do with diesels although there have been some camshafts getting the snot beat out of them on Active Fuel Management 5.3L gas engines and cam phasers flying apart on variable timing 6.0L and 6.2L engines but even at that, those issues are less common than the issues found on the diesels and are usually a failure that happens early in life while in warranty while costing the owner no out of pocket expenses. Yes, there will always be success and failure stories of both gas and diesels at both the upper and lower spec limits where they live excessively long or die prematurely but as a whole, diesels are the most costly to maintain and own.

As previously mentioned, the customer I support has 16,000 new gas trucks and only 850 diesels they purchase from us in the past 7 years in trucks with GVWR ranges from 14,800 to 23,500 lbs. The higher GVWR trucks are actually 8.1L/Allison 2200 equipped trucks, not diesels as you would imagine. The small amount of diesels in their fleet definitely take the vast majority of my time handling issues, issuing policy, and are the hardest and costlest to repair when they break. I guess diesels are job security for me and here I am letting the cat out of the bag trying to show you all diesels aren’t the shizzle that everybody thinks they are.

The fleet and commercial world gets it which is why so many fleets are moving away from diesels to gas engines in GVWR ranges where gas is offered. Not just short term lease type fleets, but even fleets that keep their trucks for 20+ years (think brown trucks that bring presents to your doorstep). This fleet and commercial world begging for gas has caught the attention of Ford where they are now offering a V10 gas in their F600 medium duty truck. The Ram brand will have a gas engine available in the 4500 and 5500 in the next 24 months and GM will offer a gas engine when they reenter the class 5 & 6 market with their new K2 platform. As I mentioned above, it is the personal use truck owner that still thinks diesels are needed to get the job done. Meh…. Rant off. I’ll let you all take turns passing your diesel bong around while I stop clicking on this tread. :coffee:
 

ericvs

Active member
I’ll let you all take turns passing your diesel bong around while I stop clicking on this tread. :coffee:
Ok, let me get this straight. Someone has a diesel BONG? why did I never hear about this until now? Who has been holding out on me?

As I mentioned above, it is the personal use truck owner that still thinks diesels are needed to get the job done. Meh…. Rant off.
For me, I know that the diesel part of the truck isn't a need, but a truck suits my usage as I don't feel like I could do all the things I want with a car. I like the diesel for personal reasons (also, I need diesel for my new bong!).

ok, so if I did want to go with a gas truck, can you give me a quick run down of what years are good/bad?
what engines good/bad?

And again, thanks for all your responses. I also hope Larry keep clicking on this thread...
 

Clutch

<---Pass
For me, I know that the diesel part of the truck isn't a need, but a truck suits my usage as I don't feel like I could do all the things I want with a car. I like the diesel for personal reasons (also, I need diesel for my new bong!).

ok, so if I did want to go with a gas truck, can you give me a quick run down of what years are good/bad?
what engines good/bad?

And again, thanks for all your responses. I also hope Larry keep clicking on this thread...

I really like Larry's truck, it is built "right".

If it were me, I would try and find a 6.0 or 8.1 gasser with a manual trans, they are a very rare bird indeed, but they are out there. Buddy of mine found one, I can't remember the the exact year, somewhere in the early 2000's like a 03 or something. IIRC picked it for around $10K. Some of the old Forest Service trucks are specced that way. It is possible to find a Ford with the V-10 or 5.4 and a manny, gotta watch the heads on those though, they like to eject spark plugs.
 
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peneumbra

Explorer
There is another reason why some folks will take diesel over gas, although it is ILLEGAL: they can buy Ag diesel (aka red diesel) for about $2 a gallon. This is the same as regular diesel except that there is no road tax included in the price; it is only supposed to be used in off-road applications. The fines for getting caught with it in your road truck are massive, and some states do random dip tests to check your fuel color.

Nonetheless, it is done, especially in places where there's a lot of agriculture. Like anything else, it's only ILLEGAL if they catch you.

(The preceding message is not an endorsement of any unlawful activity on the part of the writer. Do not try this at home.)
 

ericvs

Active member
The fines for getting caught with it in your road truck are massive, and some states do random dip tests to check your fuel color.
I will say this. I have never used off-road diesel in my truck (we call it coloured diesel in Ontario, Canada) and never will. I have also never been randomly dipped (wait, that sounds weird). However, when driving by places that sell this diesel and seeing those oh so low numbers I am always tempted haha. What snaps me back to reality is the $10ooo fine. Not worth it.
 

ericvs

Active member
Update:
Ended up trading the old dog in for some new metal.
2006 Dodge 2500 with the 5.9cummins.
Lets see how this works out.
First pic.jpg

Thanks again for all the insight and advise. While I ended up with a diesel agian, I feel that I made a good decision and got a fair price for it as well (along with a 4year/48000 mile warranty)
onwards!

(I also changed my username to something more appropriate)
 
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turbolab

Observer
Update:
Ended up trading the old dog in for some new metal.
2006 Dodge 2500 with the 5.9cummins.
Lets see how this works out.
View attachment 134212

Thanks again for all the insight and advise. While I ended up with a diesel agian, I feel that I made a good decision and got a fair price for it as well (along with a 4year/48000 mile warranty)
onwards!

good choice they only down fall too the 3rd gen cummins is the horrible seats, you will learn that fast lol
 

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