Land Rover and Jeep

[Funrover]

I am on the fence with this one!!! I own both a Jeep and a Rover!! I am excited that the 2 of them will help maintain the off road world and help keep the life I enjoy going! I am concered of what changes will happen.

Jeep has often impressed me with how they continue to envoke the 4 wheel world. I do see them selling rover has a high end off roader. I don't, however, like the compass or the patriot but I know that others do and that they sell!

But a question was brought up about IFS and solid axle earlier. My guess is that the Jeep will always have at least one rig with solid. but sadly rovers have gone totally to IFS... However the rover traction system is amazing and if Jeep does incorporate that into a rig like the Liberty that will be a very impressive little commuter(even though I heard they no longer make the diesel liberty)

 

[Lawrence]

As far as I am concerned, if Patriots help fund Rubicons, than I am all for them

I think Rubicons have (and continue) helped fund Rubicons. It has been and it still is a very succesful product for the Jeep line.

 

[Scott Brady]

The Rubicons started as a concept, funded from the profits of something else (probably Grand Cherokees).

My point is that a profitable Jeep means more cool Jeeps (i.e. risk taking). I get to see most of the new Jeeps (I help with some of the performance validation processes, like taking the S1 Patriot on the Crown King trail, or the new KK S1 across the Rubicon). They have some very cool things in the hopper.

 

[robert j. yates]

Scott...please enlighten me on the KK and the S1's monikers. I've never heard of that. Thanx.

 

[Lawrence]

My point is that a profitable Jeep means more cool Jeeps (i.e. risk taking).

I understand what your point is, and I agree with you on the Patriot. However, Robert’s inclusion of the Compass might not be a very good example.

I have yet to determine whether the Compass is Jeep’s attempt to satisfy a perceived demand for a car with Jeep styling cues, or a Jeep with car styling cues. In Europe, Jeep executives admittedly don’t know what to do with this vehicle. By calling its styling “athletic and sleek” and by offering the Compass Rallye, Jeep claims to be aiming for the fast dirt off-roading image in a “hot looking” package that will satisfy consumers’ demands. Right, I am sure Mitsu, Suby, Citroen, and Ford are all concerned about their market share declining. The Jeep Compass, much like the Pontiac Aztek , is a vehicle so utterly wrong-headed that a future Ph.D. candidate in marketing will write a thesis about it.

The Patriot on the other hand is a different approach. With styling cues borrowed from the now defunct XJ, the Patriot is the best entry level crossover coming from a dysfunctional family called the Chrysler Group. The European version with the VW-sourced 2.0-litre diesel engine should be a very good package, the only problem being that it is offered in a market where Jeep’s market share is barely a blip on the radar. Bring it States side and it should fair pretty well and be profitable.

IMO, besides the iconic Wrangler, the vehicle having the best opportunity to be profitable for Jeep, if they play their cards right, is the new KK. Very nice looking I must say.

 

[overlander]

But a question was brought up about IFS and solid axle earlier. My guess is that the Jeep will always have at least one rig with solid. but sadly rovers have gone totally to IFS... However the rover traction system is amazing and if Jeep does incorporate that into a rig like the Liberty that will be a very impressive little commuter(even though I heard they no longer make the diesel liberty)

uhhemmm. May I point out, lest you forget, that the 2007 Defender looks very much like the 1986 Defender, and all solid axle. Rover has an international market, not just a US market. The Defender is still a profitable product line for them, hence the reason why they haven't made any real changes to it over the years. It is also the mainstay of the British military, still the most easily militarized production vehicle in the world.

Further, the H1 Hummer (M998) is independent suspension all around.

 

[JPFreek1]

Here's another VERY interesting read related to the Defender 110 and new JK Unlimited. Sorry for not commenting as of yet...I just like seeing what everyone has to say before I respond. I will mention that it would be exciting to see, per Scott's response, should this "union" happen b/w LR and Jeep.

http://www.jeep.co.uk/jeep/pdf/wranglervsdefender.pdf

 

[JPFreek1]

uhhemmm. May I point out, lest you forget, that the 2007 Defender looks very much like the 1986 Defender, and all solid axle. Rover has an international market, not just a US market. The Defender is still a profitable product line for them, hence the reason why they haven't made any real changes to it over the years. It is also the mainstay of the British military, still the most easily militarized production vehicle in the world.

Further, the H1 Hummer (M998) is independent suspension all around.

I think the same can be said for Jeep with the Wrangler vehicle and it being the real flagship for Jeep. It's still very similar as before with regard to it's overall look, as is the Defender, and it's still a very profitable vehicle hence the reason for lack of significant design changes in 30+ years. The only major difference has been the inclusion of new technologies in bringing that vehicle closer to the times.

I can only imagine how cool it would be to have a Jeep-based Defender carrying the 3.0L CRD from the new Grand Cherokee. My mouth salivates every time I think about it.

 

[Lawrence]

I can only imagine how cool it would be to have a Jeep-based Defender carrying the 3.0L CRD from the new Grand Cherokee. My mouth salivates every time I think about it.

Not that cool. What I love about the Defender is the fact that it completely lacks all the froo-froo stuff everyone else is trying to stuff in a vehicle. By bringing it States side, they would have to make several changes to it to comply with federal regulations.

Give me a Defender 110 Crew Cab as it is sold today, and my Wrangler would be gone in a heartbeat. My $0.02.

 

[robert j. yates]

I understand what your point is, and I agree with you on the Patriot. However, Robert’s inclusion of the Compass might not be a very good example.

I have yet to determine whether the Compass is Jeep’s attempt to satisfy a perceived demand for a car with Jeep styling cues, or a Jeep with car styling cues. In Europe, Jeep executives admittedly don’t know what to do with this vehicle. By calling its styling “athletic and sleek” and by offering the Compass Rallye, Jeep claims to be aiming for the fast dirt off-roading image in a “hot looking” package that will satisfy consumers’ demands. Right, I am sure Mitsu, Suby, Citroen, and Ford are all concerned about their market share declining. The Jeep Compass, much like the Pontiac Aztek , is a vehicle so utterly wrong-headed that a future Ph.D. candidate in marketing will write a thesis about it.

The Patriot on the other hand is a different approach. With styling cues borrowed from the now defunct XJ, the Patriot is the best entry level crossover coming from a dysfunctional family called the Chrysler Group. The European version with the VW-sourced 2.0-litre diesel engine should be a very good package, the only problem being that it is offered in a market where Jeep’s market share is barely a blip on the radar. Bring it States side and it should fair pretty well and be profitable.

IMO, besides the iconic Wrangler, the vehicle having the best opportunity to be profitable for Jeep, if they play their cards right, is the new KK. Very nice looking I must say.

Have you ever heard of CAFE standards Lawrence? Even beyond CAFE, Jeep needs a fuel milage type of vehicle in order that all corners of the market are covered. As for diesels, why don't you simply agree to disagree. Not all of us think alike and frankly, your newly found contrarian attitude doesn't fit you allthat well.

 

[Lawrence]

Have you ever heard of CAFE standards Lawrence? Even beyond CAFE, Jeep needs a fuel milage type of vehicle in order that all corners of the market are covered.

I think you are missing the point Robert. Scott was rightfully eluding to the fact that manufacturers need profitable products to fund new ones. In this, you included the Compass which I don’t see being profitable for the Jeep brand, just my opinion. I may be totally off base since I don’t have access to Jeep’s financials on the Compass, but when I see Jeep executives not having a firm stand on a product strategy, I question its lifespan. CAFE standards have nothing to do with product branding, styling, and consumer appeal, which was the subject of my post. If you re-read my post carefully, you’ll notice that I didn’t mention fuel efficiency a single time.

As for diesels, why don't you simply agree to disagree.

I don’t believe I said anything negative about diesels in this thread. Regarding the Patriot, my words were “The European version with the VW-sourced 2.0-litre diesel engine should be a very good package”. Then, I went on to post the following “Give me a Defender 110 Crew Cab as it is sold today, and my Wrangler would be gone in a heartbeat”. I believe it has a diesel engine, doesn’t it? There are applications that are well suited for diesel technology, and others that are marginal at best.

Not all of us think alike and frankly, your newly found contrarian attitude doesn't fit you allthat well.

I am aware of that and it would be a fairly boring place if we all were, wouldn’t it? I have not disagreed with you, except for a little friendly bet you didn’t take. In case you are referring to my thread http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8602 I don’t see how your desire to buy a GC CRD and your mpg figures are relevant to me asking opinions on rebuilding my TJ. Still, I let you carry on. In conclusion, I find it both amusing and disappointing that you would throw stones and call me contrarian. Besides, since we have only met face to face for half a day at most, a feat I would hardly categorized as knowing each other, you wouldn’t know if it fits me or not. Cheers.

 

[robert j. yates]

Gas milage standards are going to be restructured in this country whether folks want to admit it or not. CAFE also impacts total brand profitability. Bottomline is that brands need to invest in technology that deals with those issues if they want to succeed in the marketplace.

Since we are in fact talking about risk taking and profitability (where it allows for more niche oriented marketing)....the mere fact that a person can order a Jeep that gets 30mpg and uses a CVT transmission in conjunction with AWD represents some rather substantial risk taking IMO.

Yes I think its ugly and personally I'd never buy one but the fact that it exists I do not believe to be a mistake.

And if folks are wondering why I mention CVT....its pretty much the transmission of choice for Honda and Toyota hybrids such as the Insight and Prius. Yep...Jeep has no clue what they are doing with the Compass

 

[Paradiddle]

I thought this thread was about Rover and Jeep?

:shakin:

 

[Andrew Walcker]

Here's another VERY interesting read related to the Defender 110 and new JK Unlimited. Sorry for not commenting as of yet...I just like seeing what everyone has to say before I respond. I will mention that it would be exciting to see, per Scott's response, should this "union" happen b/w LR and Jeep.

http://www.jeep.co.uk/jeep/pdf/wranglervsdefender.pdf

Intersting write up, especially since it's from a UK source and gives the nods to us Yanks! The author's observations do not surprise me too much as it does make sense that the Jeep excels in many more areas than the Defender. I think that Jeep has been much more proactive in updating and improving the vehicle than LR. The Defender was finally updated in 2008 and that consisted of a different engine, updated dash, and a bulge on the bonnet. Now this is probably a conscious decision by LR driven by the Defender's ability to share parts with many of the Series vehicles and is a great benefit for other parts of the world, just doesn't do to much for a heads up competition with a totally new Jeep platform.

 

[TeriAnn]

That's what us Rover guys say about the questionable reliability of the Freelander (read FORD's revenge)

The Freelander was designed by BMW & the V6 in it is a BMW engine. LR has long design cycles. The diesel V6 & V8 engines, the 2.4L four cyl diesel & 6 speed gearbox are there under Ford's watch. I think all the current models sold in the States were designed under BMW's watch. Ford has made drive train changes but I don't think a model designed under Ford's watch has emerged yet.