Blue Sea ACR Wiring Question

4RunAmok

Explorer
I kinda agree with MakersTeleMark.... If you trip a fuse or breaker in your unlikely example of 600 amps, you have something larger to worry about than winching your vehicle out...

I did a google images search for "winch wiring" and couldn't find an example of a fused winch wiring diagram (I didn't scour, but I looked at all of the top images..), so it would seem that fusing a winch is not common practice.
 

dstock

Explorer
I kinda agree with MakersTeleMark.... If you trip a fuse or breaker in your unlikely example of 600 amps, you have something larger to worry about than winching your vehicle out...

I did a google images search for "winch wiring" and couldn't find an example of a fused winch wiring diagram (I didn't scour, but I looked at all of the top images..), so it would seem that fusing a winch is not common practice.

I came across a few threads on a couple of the Jeep forums regarding fusing the winch, I'd have to go back and do a search to find them. The threads suggested that size ANL fuse. If it's bs then so be it, I have my wires loomed where need be and frankly the fuse is huge and not easy to find a location for, I'd gladly do away with it if it is not needed. You obviously have more experience in this area then I do.
 

4RunAmok

Explorer
Really the concern here is if something happens to the wiring between the winch and the battery. If you take care to secure this, by way of looming, and zip tying, making sure that the wiring can not wear against something over time and cause a short, you can get away without a fuse. If you do fuse, and then the winch draws a heavy load while being used, and this causes the fuse to pop and the winch stops doing its duty, you could put yourself in some other kind of danger...
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
If you've got a fuse rated for 600a, then you need wire rated for *more than* 600a.

Otherwise, the wire will melt first. Which means, that the wire is in fact protecting the fuse, rather than the fuse protecting the wire.
 

dstock

Explorer
Thanks for the advice guys, I will adjust my setup a bit to better protect the wiring and forgo the fuse.
 

Captm

Adventurer
Being in the yachting biz I do all my wiring to code and I carry this over to the 4X4 world as well. Yachts and boats use a fuse/breaker for their windlass so I would fuse/breaker a winch on a 4X4. In this thread I notice some fuzzy math going on, not ragging on anyone just doing the numbers. :088:
This is one of several web tools I like to use http://circuitwizard.bluesea.com/.
So a question that I have is why a major winch manufacturer supplies 12' (2x72") of 2ga wire rated at 120a when a winch will pull in excess of 4x that amount?

Cheers
 

4RunAmok

Explorer
You are not going to experience the loads on a windlass that you would winching out a vehicle.

The only thing I would do, IF I felt the need, is use a high amp Remote Battery Switch like the Blue Sea 7700, and run it in manual mode. Only turning it on when I needed the winch (added bonus of being able to do so on the unit itself, or via a switch in the cab. The 7700 is a 500 Amp continuous duty unit, so it should handle most winches.

To add fire to the debate, using this chart... 2g wire, 200 amps, at 25' of wire. So go figure
ampacity.jpg
 

Ramjet

Explorer
From my understanding, you do not fuse winches due to the power requirements for the winch. Which is under constant duty. Good luck.
 

theksmith

Explorer
when you have a winch near the battery, you have a short run of cable - no worse than the factory run from the battery to the main fuse box, hardly anyone fuses that. the OP however may have a more unique situation.

the OP stated he would have a battery in the rear of the vehicle with perhaps an 8 FT run of cable to re-join the main circuits through the ACR. a long run of cable like that should be fused or protected by a breaker. i had brought up the potential of a winch load which would create a more interesting situation where high amperage circuit protection and cable could be necessary.

in my own situation of relocating both batteries to the rear of the rig, i decided that i would limit myself to always running a future winch with both batteries engaged. therefore i could realistically use a 300 Amp breaker off each battery - expecting to roughly split the potential 600 amp load of the winch. depending on the exact battery chemistry and current charge, the load might not split exactly 50/50, but i believe the idea is still sound. i do not yet have a winch, so i can't say for sure. some winches rate even higher amperage requirements depending on how many wraps are on the drum, but i don't know if that is a temporary spike current or a consistent load.
 

4RunAmok

Explorer
The original poster never mentioned a winch either! LOL! And hasn't posted since getting his initial question answered :D
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
So a question that I have is why a major winch manufacturer supplies 12' (2x72") of 2ga wire rated at 120a when a winch will pull in excess of 4x that amount

Aye, that's a bloody good question. Using the Warn M8000 as an example:

http://www.warn.com/truck/winches/src/M8000.shtml

They do exactly what is mentioned in the quote - include 6' of #2 wire for a unit which, according to their specs on that page draws up to 435 amps. And in fact, that's not actually the max amp draw. The number they are quoting is the max amp draw while the motor is still turning. The true max amps would be the LRA (Locked Rotor Amps), which is not listed.

So yes...WHY do that they do that, when there is clearly the potential to seriously overload the wire included in the kit?

Dunno. Prolly something to do with cost/benefit vs. return rates or some other manufacturing/marketing formula.



As to wire ampacity charts - I find the ones for 12v applications are often misleading. The reason is that when dealing with the down and dirty low-voltage range of 12v systems, one really has to pay extra attention to voltage drop, which is not nearly as much of an issue up in the 115v/230v range.

So, wire gauge charts for low-voltage systems seem to often be fudged a bit this way or that - especially when produced by manufacturers of devices where their chart is showing the recommended wire gauge for their device.

But the simple fact is this: X wire with Y insulation is rated to handle Z amps at N temperature before the insulation melts. Period.

Proper wire ampacity charts will list not only the gauge of the wire, the also the temperature rating and the wire type (i.e., the insulation type). Any wire chart which does not list those things is, IMHO, suspect.

Here's a proper wire chart:

http://www.armstrongssupply.com/wire_chart.htm
 

ldivinag

Adventurer
Where do you find large amp breakers, like for a winch?

when i got my warn winch over a decade ago, they recommend to wire directly to battery, no fuse or anything.

as for fusing though, back when i competed in car audio competition (yes, there were and ARE such things), the governing body, IASCA mandated that any line coming from the battery must be fused within 18".

i learned the hard way in my first competition. it wasnt the physical distance of the fusing device to the battery. but the length of the wire.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
185,901
Messages
2,879,329
Members
225,497
Latest member
WonaWarrior
Top