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Thread: 22RE - 22R differences?

  1. #1

    Default 22RE - 22R differences?

    I've got a 1985 Toyota truck 4x4 with a 22RE motor that has developed an oil leak, so I plan to replace all the seals for the short term, but I'd like to do a rebuild in the future.

    I've been searching for a spare motor and have come across a few 22R's. Will the parts swap between the 2 motors (22RE & 22R)? Also with the fuel injection swap over to the 22R

    Any help is greatly appreciated!
    Last edited by Ga Yota 4x4; 11-29-2007 at 04:05 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ga Yota 4x4
    I've got a 1985 Toyota truck 4x4 with a 22RE motor that has developed an oil leak, so I plan to replace all the seals for the short term, but I'd like to do a rebuild in the future.

    I've been searching for a spare motor and have come across a few 22R's. Will the parts swap between the 2 motors (22RE & 22R)? Also with the fuel injection swap over to the 22R

    Any help is greatly appreciated!
    yes the parts are swappable if I remember correctly, I think you can swap the intakes and possibly the head and convert 22r's to 22re's, but I'm not sure if there is any other hoops involved. I'm sure you'll find all the answers here eventually.

  3. #3
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    Watch out for the wiring harness, I would doubt a carb'd truck would have the correct loom to run the ECU for the Fuel injection (no matter how archaic that "computer is...)

    That's my only thought. Otherwise I'd imagine it'd just be mater of swapin the head and manifold.

    Edit: o wait, you have a 22RE and you're looking into using the 22R block... In THAT case I think you should be OK.
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  4. #4
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    There is a difference between 22R blocks. Toyota changed the deck height in 8/84, so 81-84 22R blocks and heads are different than 85-95. The late 22R block is 0.190" shorter than the early blocks. So if you put the head from a late on an early, you'll get valve interference.

    As far as swapping EFI parts, there is no problem putting the parts from a 22R-E onto some 22R, but you can't freely swap heads. The mounting bosses aren't the same on all 22R engines. I think a 22R from 1983 and newer will have the same mounting as the late 22R. IOW, EFI probably won't bolt up to a 1981/82 22R.

    But in your case, all post 10/84 engine blocks are practically identical no matter if it's a EFI or carb. The head castings and valvetrain are the same, although the cam profiles might be different between a 22R and 22R-E, I don't know that for sure. Safe thing is to swap heads to keep the cam and EFI together. Otherwise, get the wiring harness, ECU, fuel tank, fuel lines, intake. It's a swap that's been done plenty of times.
    Last edited by DaveInDenver; 11-30-2007 at 01:47 PM. Reason: Early morning mistake
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  5. #5
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    What Dave said.

    Anything model year 85 up is plug and play on the core engine. There are some changes in the FI (like 87 was a major harness change, 88 the injector impedance changed etc). 85 up is what is referred to as a "Laser" block. Here is how to tell the difference if you are junk yarding.

    http://www.lcengineering.com/technot...&catid=1&id=49

    There is still some debate on the factory cams on a R or RE. they do have different part numbers but some feel that they have identical cam profile. When I was building my motor I talked to Ted at Engine Builder and he has checked the cams on both and he could not detect the difference. Ted is a machinist and respected in the Toy world so take it for what it is worth.


    Now where is the oil ending up? The front main seal is prone to going on high mile engines. It slings oil all over the place and really cakes it on the alternator. A groove often develops on the balancer that causes this. Their is a repair kit called a “speedy sleeve” that fixes that problem. $20 and you can usually get it done without much trouble.

    I'm local to you and I will ask around some of my buddies to see if they have a core motor and let you know if I come up with anything.

    One thing I will say is I spent nearly the same to have my head redone as I could have got a new ready to go head from Enginebuilder. Where I ran into a problem is between my head being shaved and my block needing to be surfaced it bumped my compression just enough that my truck is not at all happy with 87. It pings even backing off the timing. 89 is just enough that it can deal with it. Another reason I may have been better off with a new head.

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    My experience with the front crank seal is that the aftermarket seals that are black tend to be very 'plasticy' feeling while those that are red are very supple & flexible. You want the latter. I've had two of the former fail spectacularly.

    I also go to the trouble of removing the oil pump cover to install the seal. Far easier to start it square & keep it that way.

    On Speedi-Sleaves, pay attention to where the groove is and where the end of the sleave is. I believe that one of my seal failures was actually the seal's lip getting cut by the edge of the sleave. I'm now careful to push the seal into the pump cover as far as it will go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveInDenver
    There is a difference between 22R blocks. Toyota changed the deck height in 10/84, so 81-84 22R blocks and heads are different than 85-95. The late 22R block is 0.190" shorter than the early blocks. So if you put the head from a early on a late, you'll get valve interference.

    As far as swapping EFI parts, there is no problem putting the parts from a 22R-E onto some 22R, but you can't freely swap heads. The mounting bosses aren't the same on all 22R engines. I think a 22R from 1983 and newer will have the same mounting as the late 22R. IOW, EFI probably won't bolt up to a 1981/82 22R.

    But in your case, all post 10/84 engine blocks are practically identical no matter if it's a EFI or carb. The head castings and valvetrain are the same, although the cam profiles might be different between a 22R and 22R-E, I don't know that for sure. Safe thing is to swap heads to keep the cam and EFI together. Otherwise, get the wiring harness, ECU, fuel tank, fuel lines, intake. It's a swap that's been done plenty of times.
    Can you make up the deck height with a thicker head gasket? The clearance issue's is what I couldn't remember, and if a thicker head gasket could be used would you have to mess with the duration of the vavle train?
    Last edited by taco chaser; 11-30-2007 at 01:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taco chaser
    Can you make up the deck height with a thicker head gasket?
    No.
    Not worth the effort anyway. My engine builder & I had a discussion about the change in deck height. I had a short deck core and tall deck in the truck. His feeling was that the shorter deck, and resultant shorter connecting rod, made for a better truck engine. Circle Track Mag showed years ago that rod length only juggled the shape of the HP & Torque curves, it didn't alter the loaction of the peaks or the peak values.
    The disadvantage to a long rod in a truck engine is that greater piston dwell near TDC makes it more likely to detonate. My experience would indicate this to be correct, but no scientific testing has been done. It ran so I drove it.

    Never heard of any interference difference btwn tall deck & short deck 22R engines. If they both have roughly the same compression ratio and the valve geometry in the head hasn't been radically changed I wonder what could cause this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntsqd
    No.
    Not worth the effort anyway. My engine builder & I had a discussion about the change in deck height. I had a short deck core and tall deck in the truck. His feeling was that the shorter deck, and resultant shorter connecting rod, made for a better truck engine. Circle Track Mag showed years ago that rod length only juggled the shape of the HP & Torque curves, it didn't alter the loaction of the peaks or the peak values.
    The disadvantage to a long rod in a truck engine is that greater piston dwell near TDC makes it more likely to detonate. My experience would indicate this to be correct, but no scientific testing has been done. It ran so I drove it.

    Never heard of any interference difference btwn tall deck & short deck 22R engines. If they both have roughly the same compression ratio and the valve geometry in the head hasn't been radically changed I wonder what could cause this?
    My thinking was the stroke of the pistons, longer rods for the high deck and shorter for the low deck could cause vavles to hit the pistons or throw off the cycle due to the change in combustion chambers , stroke of the pistons, and the duration of the exhaust and intake valves or are the piston rods the same length and they changed compression with just deck height? Am I making any sense? Thanks for the info. I just noticed I said displacement when I meant duration in the above reply
    Last edited by taco chaser; 11-30-2007 at 01:49 AM.

  10. #10
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    If the head's been shaved, then it's possible to shim or use one of the thick headgaskets to bring down the compression. There are ways to deal with it, but not with factory parts. I've seen 0.051" headgaskets for the 20/22R (stock is I think 0.040" thick).

    The 20/22R is an interference engine. So I'm not sure all combinations of head and blocks work. The early 22R had domed pistons, which can cause problems depending on whether or not the head was shaved, head height, which valves you use and the cam profile. Late 22R blocks can run any stock 20R or 22R head without interference (because of the dished pistons), I believe. Using an early 22R head on a late block will give you higher compression, but I dunno about interference (I've never personally done it).
    Last edited by DaveInDenver; 11-30-2007 at 01:58 PM.
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