The AR-15

[Stumpalump]

Madness. Lots of people hit squat with them all the time, and the AR platform can have excellent accuracy past 500m. With your typical bushmaster type battle rifle, irons or cheap red dot, and bulk ammo, I'll hit ~3" at 100m. Make it a quality gun with nice scope and fancy ammo, most people will hit ~3" at 200m. For me, the biggest complaints are they aren't as rugged or durable as I'd like and they get really dirty really fast.

There are guys that can drive tacks with a 10/22 but do you really like to get all set up and comphy like a sniper? Will you always have the time? Here is a fun game if you want to see a real cluster. Unload your buddies AR and have him face away from the targets. Move the targets to where he will have to hunt a little for them. Tell him you will time him to put 3 rounds on each of 5 targets. What a mess you will have but if nothing else he will get better at covering your back. That gun is cumbersome under pressure. Throw a spent shell in his clip if you can sneak one in on him and put a target so close he never sees it. AR shooters get so focused on the odd gun and its sights that they miss the situation. They seem to take forever to deal with a jam to the point they give up. Make sure they clear it and get those targets when they stall. I know you guys like them and are convinced they are the ultimate but it's very important to jack each other up constantly so you can handle it in crappy conditions. Hard gun to master and I see guys that won't shoot them in front of a group because they are not that confident handling them. Don't be that guy. Know it's hard and know you need hard practice.

 

[k9lestat]

Stump I totally agree with you about the training thing. And being a country boy I had issues going to the ghost ring peep sight of the m16. But saying you can't hit anything with it without the aid of a scope is not correct. Now I wasn't the most proficient past 275 meters, but that was iron sights.
I never would used a sight on the weapon until one was given to me. I really liked it. Reason was it helped me at distance and with magnification only being x4 using it with both eyes open was not a problem. Yes I'm a brain washed military about the m16. But truthfully its the cheapest thing to shoot in a rifle I like. If money wasn't my issue I'd be all over something in 5.7. Or maybe btr90 .308.

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[Stumpalump]

Stump I totally agree with you about the training thing. And being a country boy I had issues going to the ghost ring peep sight of the m16. But saying you can't hit anything with it without the aid of a scope is not correct. Now I wasn't the most proficient past 275 meters, but that was iron sights.
I never would used a sight on the weapon until one was given to me. I really liked it. Reason was it helped me at distance and with magnification only being x4 using it with both eyes open was not a problem. Yes I'm a brain washed military about the m16. But truthfully its the cheapest thing to shoot in a rifle I like. If money wasn't my issue I'd be all over something in 5.7. Or maybe btr90 .308.

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Last week I paid 32 bucks for a brick of .22 and was happy they had it. My buddy spent $79 on 250 rounds of 9mm for his new $1000 Sig. I told him about the $69 1550 round cases of surplus AK ammo we used to shoot in our $229 AK's. I lost him when I mentioned it was steel core armor piercing and it threw great sparks off of the rock cliffs at night. He said "You wasted ammo shooting at cliffs?" It was cheaper than .22 is today!

 

[Joker]

Fancy sights were invented because of the AR. You can't hit squat with out them.

Maybe for you but I regularly hit targets out to 500m with my iron sites, granted we shot a lot and I am talking about prone supported but still. We had the old Aimpoint 3000 which were crap so we didn't use them.

 

[Scott Brady]

I find the iron sights comment curious. Sure, you can hit with iron sights, but enhanced optics are superior for target acquisition and more accurate initial hits. We run iron sights and optics cowitnessed. The Trijicon 4x with the red dot on top is superior to just iron sights in nearly every scenario. Then progress to NVG with IR illumination and IR laser- the real-world advantage is like swords vs. sticks. . .

Class IV NVGs and IR with suppressed 300 blackout ARs and select-fire MP5s

 

[AzTacoma]

I find the iron sights comment curious. Sure, you can hit with iron sights, but enhanced optics are superior for target acquisition and more accurate initial hits. We run iron sights and optics cowitnessed. The Trijicon 4x with the red dot on top is superior to just iron sights in nearly every scenario. Then progress to NVG with IR illumination and IR laser- the real-world advantage is like swords vs. sticks. . .
Class IV NVGs and IR with suppressed 300 blackout ARs and select-fire MP5s

I believe, and I'm guessing most feel the same, that optics can offer far superior results in nearly any situation... yet iron sites are still useful for introductory and fundamentals (and yeah, nostalgia/fun). There's something to be said about being handed a stripped, raw weapon and still being proficient.

 

[Scott Brady]

I believe, and I'm guessing most feel the same, that optics can offer far superior results in nearly any situation... yet iron sites are still useful for introductory and fundamentals (and yeah, nostalgia/fun). There's something to be said about being handed a stripped, raw weapon and still being proficient.

Totally agree. I only shoot my Saiga AK with iron sights. An AK with an optic looks like an FJ40 with a 40" LED light bar

 

[Stumpalump]

Totally agree. I only shoot my Saiga AK with iron sights. An AK with an optic looks like an FJ40 with a 40" LED light bar

With an AK you can easily pick it up, look down range and hit close enough for assault type shooting with out any sights. It just feels simplistic. An AR is more dependent to sighting in the weapon before you can be on target. Same with shooting from the hip. I know nobody teaches this but when the banditos are jumping out of the truck you may want to start throwing lead as the weapon is being brought up. I can have a lot of lead in the back of a pick up truck before the gun is brought to shoulder because it's easier to shoot. Obviously why small third world guys wreak such havoc with them. We don't even fight on their terms but instead stay way back with air power and 50 cal to soften things up. I seriously doubt any use we would personally have except fun will have support. I'll be the little guy needing to wreak havoc in a defensive manor and is why I commented and suggested a good way to get as handy as you can with an AR. An AR is no joke, I just consider it needing more disciplined operation and sighting. An 8 year old can master and hit with an AK and I'll be about as worth while as one when my house or camp has just been shot up and I'm squirming. Do you want to drop from your wife and kid with a complex military weapon system she is scared of or a dumb bang stick she can survive with?

 

[toylandcruiser]

With an AK you can easily pick it up, look down range and hit close enough for assault type shooting with out any sights. It just feels simplistic. An AR is more dependent to sighting in the weapon before you can be on target. Same with shooting from the hip. I know nobody teaches this but when the banditos are jumping out of the truck you may want to start throwing lead as the weapon is being brought up. I can have a lot of lead in the back of a pick up truck before the gun is brought to shoulder because it's easier to shoot. Obviously why small third world guys wreak such havoc with them. We don't even fight on their terms but instead stay way back with air power and 50 cal to soften things up. I seriously doubt any use we would personally have except fun will have support. I'll be the little guy needing to wreak havoc in a defensive manor and is why I commented and suggested a good way to get as handy as you can with an AR. An AR is no joke, I just consider it needing more disciplined operation and sighting. An 8 year old can master and hit with an AK and I'll be about as worth while as one when my house or camp has just been shot up and I'm squirming. Do you want to drop from your wife and kid with a complex military weapon system she is scared of or a dumb bang stick she can survive with?

Yea I don't think so. It's super simple to hit targets with an AR. Have you even been in combat? Obviously not.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[AzTacoma]

With an AK you can easily pick it up, look down range and hit close enough for assault type shooting with out any sights. It just feels simplistic. An AR is more dependent to sighting in the weapon before you can be on target. Same with shooting from the hip. I know nobody teaches this but when the banditos are jumping out of the truck you may want to start throwing lead as the weapon is being brought up. I can have a lot of lead in the back of a pick up truck before the gun is brought to shoulder because it's easier to shoot. Obviously why small third world guys wreak such havoc with them. We don't even fight on their terms but instead stay way back with air power and 50 cal to soften things up. I seriously doubt any use we would personally have except fun will have support. I'll be the little guy needing to wreak havoc in a defensive manor and is why I commented and suggested a good way to get as handy as you can with an AR. An AR is no joke, I just consider it needing more disciplined operation and sighting. An 8 year old can master and hit with an AK and I'll be about as worth while as one when my house or camp has just been shot up and I'm squirming. Do you want to drop from your wife and kid with a complex military weapon system she is scared of or a dumb bang stick she can survive with?

Yeah, I generally agree that an AK is easy to operate and aim quickly. Good luck hitting anything past 100m with precision, but if you goal is to quickly put up a wall of lead in a general area it's great. An AR is a little more finesse and does require a little more discipline to use. It all depends on what you're looking for and comfort level, but I will say the AR really isn't that hard to master in real world situations... a little practice with walking/pivoting at the low ready or ready position and bringing it up for a double tap and you get that muscle memory quick. Spend a few hours with reflexive fire practice on the AR and you're good to go, it's really not that hard.

 

[Stumpalump]

Yea I don't think so. It's super simple to hit targets with an AR. Have you even been in combat? Obviously not.

Were you smart or savey enough to go to school instead of volunteering your neck for some worthless third world country? Obviously not.
No. We don't have combat zones in my country. Does the street count? No need for combat training or weapons systems there. We do have meth producers, human smugglers and pot growers that we may run into in the back country. Unfortunately we may never know them as a threat until it's too late so a stupid simple quick acting weapon is superior to your marching in single file training with a rifle on your shoulder. Two different things. Your buddy was trained on your weapon and is expecting combat. My buddy does not even know why a weapon is in the jeep but he can fiqure out an AK 1 second after the first threat appears because it's not even worth putting in a case. I jump out to see why their stuck and a newb can have my back. Can you claim that with your cased electronic scoped gizmo that they literally had to send you to school to operate? I know it's not an issue because you only go into the back country with your batalion at your back. Gun freaks crack me up.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Were you smart or savey enough to go to school instead of volunteering your neck for some worthless third world country? Obviously not.
No. We don't have combat zones in my country. Does the street count? No need for combat training or weapons systems there. We do have meth producers, human smugglers and pot growers that we may run into in the back country. Unfortunately we may never know them as a threat until it's too late so a stupid simple quick acting weapon is superior to your marching in single file training with a rifle on your shoulder. Two different things. Your buddy was trained on your weapon and is expecting combat. My buddy does not even know why a weapon is in the jeep but he can fiqure out an AK 1 second after the first threat appears because it's not even worth putting in a case. I jump out to see why their stuck and a newb can have my back. Can you claim that with your cased electronic scoped gizmo that they literally had to send you to school to operate? I know it's not an issue because you only go into the back country with your batalion at your back. Gun freaks crack me up.

Nice long pointless rant that doesn't mean a thing from a guy that obviously has no experience with weapons.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[texascrane]

Were you smart or savey enough to go to school instead of volunteering your neck for some worthless third world country? Obviously not.

Serious question: Why has stumpalump not been banned? He just seems to run around from thread to thread making trouble and posting some of the most ridiculous tripe you'll ever read.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Serious question: Why has stumpalump not been banned? He just seems to run around from thread to thread making trouble and posting some of the most ridiculous tripe you'll ever read.

So he is a troll? I won't bother with him anymore. Thank you


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[k9lestat]

It never fails as soon as you think he's going actually contribute in a a civil manner he always has to take a stab at people who serve in any capacity. Military or public safety. He is just a pain in the tail.

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