Why so few GM Builds?

[chilliwak]

I am niether a democrat or republican. I am Canadian. My first car was a Rambler so that is the reason that I started working on cars when I was 14. We grew up with all kinds of trucks. Even Fords were good back then. (solid front axel) My truck does not ride like a car. I would sas anything that was not born with a solid front axel.

Here is my ride and my build has been on this site for ages but most of the pics are gone due to photobucket railroading all of us! Cheers, Chilli...

 

[CrazyDrei]

In my AO the majority of the type who own GM's are as follows:

* Those who want a truck that drives/rides/feels like a car or SUV
* Those who grew up with GM vehicles
* City boys and weekend warriors/garage tinkerer types
* Those who do very little towing

The diesel trucks are overwhelmingly Ford and Dodge/Ram as are those driven by farmers, ranchers, and company/work trucks.

Tex68w,

I do not disagree with you at all, you have absolutely nailed it withe GM driver demographic, but you have also missed one little detain about GM SUV and truck owners: go visit any national park and will notice that a vast majority of vehicles parked in the campgrounds are sedans or GM SUVs with a good deal of Expeditions and Sequias. And that is only because GM has built a perfect car camping (read: overlanding) vehicles and has been building them for 25 years before Toyota rolled the first FJ40 off the assembly line, or 10 years before Jeep rolled the first CJ off the assembly line.

GM owners are normal everyday people who do not have the luxury of building a dedicated "Overlanding" rig that will spend 95% of it's life in the shop and gets out only once or twice a year because it's impossible to drive as a daily driver.

Likewise you don't see "overland" capable diesel Fords or Rams out there unless they are pulling their house (ginormous castle of a travel trailer) because they are ridiculously expensive to buy and maintain or they are the work trucks that people want to get out of on their days off.

Bottom line is that we all need to get out more and see the world rather than sit behind a desk and judge other adventures and vehicles they adventure in.

 

[Buliwyf]

I see Dodges and Ford's with pop up and hard side campers, and 35"+ MT's, every single weekend.

My (Gas) SD's maintenance is no more than a car's. Give or take the larger sized rotors, pads, and calipers. Might actually be cheaper. Any shade tree mechanic can change the shocks on a Ford SD while blind folded. And where my car needed constant ball joints due to potholes and bumpy roads, the truck will go 10years/200,000 miles on the OE joints.

The reason I went Ford this time, and last: Is how easy they are to expo prep up. Lift kits are simple and cheap, shocks are a 30 minute job, 35" tires fit stock, add a front locker and regear as needed, drop a slide in camper on the bed.....done. Easy as pie, and the suspensions foibles have been well known and sorted out since 2006.

 

[bknudtsen]

My Grandfather owned a Chevrolet dealership before I was born. I grew up GM. I’ve owned one GMT400 and four GMT800 platforms. I currently have an ‘83 K10 that I am building.

That being said, if I could afford a brand new truck, I would buy a 4wd F250 CC XL with the gas 6.2 engine. I think they are the best “bang for you buck” truck available today. I like the big stock wheel wells and generous ground clearance.

As far as why we don’t see many GM builds...

First, we should define what constitutes a “build.” Second, we should clarify how many model years we should go back.

There are plenty on here if we open up all model years. Page 1 of this forum can be dominated by any one of the Big 3 depending on the day. I agree with many folks that are plenty of GM’s out there being used by individuals and families for recreation. I just think that the plastic clad bumpers and car-like ground clearance of the late model examples make folks shy away from them for lifted and modded builds. I don’t count SEMA trucks.

I’ve owned Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Jeep, Toyota, Range Rover, and Nissan trucks or SUV’s. So far, I’ve only taken the Jeeps, Toyota, and Nissan on any real adventures. That’s more circumstantial/timing than a preference or trust in a certain brand.

Good discussion.

 

[PGW]

I have a GM (2003 8.1L Yukon XL) probably worthy of a build thread but making one is just a low priority for me. This site has picked up a lot of trolls the past few years and its not worth my time having to deal with them. Mention GM or IFS and according to some people my steering and front axle should explode as soon as I hit gravel. A few weeks back I was in Colorado and drove some tough trails including Pearl Pass (pictured) and by some miracle my front suspension didn't explode and I drove home just fine. My truck (and all others ever made) is not perfect and I have no brand loyalty, but it is the best compromise for me. Also I can honestly say I couldn't care less who owns or doesn't own a certain type of vehicle, all I'm concerned with is my truck and where I'm taking it next.

 

[Buddha.]

I don't need to build my truck for it to fulfill my needs.

 

[Buliwyf]

I think it means ''we don't see many modern Gmc builds''.

No doubt that 1986 k20s rule. That might be my biggest beef. Make a truck like that again, with dana60's, and less rust.

The last time gmc made a truck I respected, it looked liked the above. But maybe it's unfair when they paid my way through school, fixing the new ones.

Closest thing out there:

 

[Dalko43]

The reason I went Ford this time, and last: Is how easy they are to expo prep up. Lift kits are simple and cheap, shocks are a 30 minute job, 35" tires fit stock, add a front locker and regear as needed, drop a slide in camper on the bed.....done. Easy as pie, and the suspensions foibles have been well known and sorted out since 2006.

Most of that applies to the other 3/4 tons on the market. GM's trucks have an IFS, and most of the known issues have been sorted out at this point and there are OEM and aftermarket locker options. Ram's have very nearly the same sort of suspension as the Ford's (radius arm solid axle in the front, optional coils or leaf springs with the rear axle). Optional lockers (front and rear) for the Power Wagon or aftermarket air lockers for the rest of the Ram lineup.

Pretty much all of the domestic 3/4 ton's are ready for expo duty with minimal, if any work; Ford is not at all special in that regard.

 

[Buliwyf]

Depends. In my clique, with the Dodge we're
-replacing the axle shafts to get rid of the front axle disconnect
-adding a free spin kit
-using a long arm kit, depending on year. (not really a big deal, because we replace the radius arms on the Fords which is about the same thing)
-2 locker and gears
-and those 2 darn ball joints, if it's used.

Dodge had it right with the early PW's, solid axle shafts and 4.56 gears. Now back down to 4.10's is a bummer. Not bad at all, but more work than the Ford, except for the PW.

With the Chevy:
-Solid axle swap, which is fairly expensive and labor intensive. Even though there are companies offering complete kits specifically for that, that might be hardly any more expensive than beefing up the IFS properly, and lifting it. It's often cheaper in the long run. We won't lock the IFS diff at all.
-12 bolt rear. Scrapping every 10 bolt we come across. If it has the govbomb in a 12, replacing that with a Detroit or Elocker.
-Cut out fender flares for a little more clearance, if available. IIRC that's another $2000.

That's just too much IMO. Fixing one up can equal my entire camper budget.

 

[XJLI]

The IFS isn't the biggest problem in the Chevys... its stupid low they are and how HUGE the front bumpers are.

You don't need F/R lockers in a 8000lb expo rig on 35s to go up and down mountain passes and through two track.

 

[Buliwyf]

Beach launching boats, is our most often use for it. And Coshacton (sp?) county washed out flooded roads in the spring, or their washed out mountain roads with sharp turns in the spring. That's where we Toyota'd a couple GM front ends, crossed up, at extension. Same thing that eats taco's.

Not that one locker isn't enough, it just that we have to be gentle as possible on the sand. Similar to Ohio's version of "permafrost" grass, with slick clay mud underneath. Our hills have more in common with a swamp than Utah.

 

[CrazyDrei]

I have a GM 900 ... I built it over time and I thought I would use as temporary rig... tuns out, this thing is awesome... just sold my ford raptor because this vehicle is far better as an expo rig

Chevy suburbans, as a practical matter, have probably put on more offroad and adventure miles than any other brand and model is USA history....

Pretty much all of the domestic 3/4 ton's are ready for expo duty with minimal, if any work; Ford is not at all special in that regard.

You don't need F/R lockers in a 8000lb expo rig on 35s to go up and down mountain passes and through two track.

So to summarize my favorite posts: GM IFS trucks are busy out there exploring and overlanding where there is no internet to chime in, while many others are killing time on message boards while their trucks are in the shop or that $500 car payment for next 5 years is not worth scratching the paint.

My dream adventure truck was a 4 door Rubicon with 4" lift and 35's, however my wife shot down that $35,000 dream. My next choice was an LR3 with 3" lift and 33s, however that $150,000 dream was also shot down by my wife. She did let me spend $2,500 on the Suburban that we already owned and that got me gears, detroit locker, 37" tires, 500mile range off road (1,000miles if I bring gas cans), dual zone AC, comfortable seating for 6 and a breakover angle of a 2 door Rubicon!

 

[Tex68w]

So to summarize my favorite posts: GM IFS trucks are busy out there exploring and overlanding where there is no internet to chime in, while many others are killing time on message boards while their trucks are in the shop or that $500 car payment for next 5 years is not worth scratching the paint.

My dream adventure truck was a 4 door Rubicon with 4" lift and 35's, however my wife shot down that $35,000 dream. My next choice was an LR3 with 3" lift and 33s, however that $150,000 dream was also shot down by my wife. She did let me spend $2,500 on the Suburban that we already owned and that got me gears, detroit locker, 37" tires, 500mile range off road (1,000miles if I bring gas cans), dual zone AC, comfortable seating for 6 and a breakover angle of a 2 door Rubicon!

I hope you meant $15,000 for the LR3 lol?!

I have payments on both of our vehicles and I don't let that stop me from using them as I intended when we bought them. I do take good care to maintain the paint and underside after each adventure so that they stay looking good longer.

The cost of a rig is all relative to ones means and abilities and/or their perceived value in such expenses. Just because you rock a budget build that might be able to go to the majority of places that these late model rigs go for 1/10th or less of the cost doesn't mean that you're doing it right and they are wrong or over spent.

This is an enthusiast forum for fellow enthusiasts to learn, grow, share their experiences and knowledge on relevant subjects pertaining to off-road travel and exploration. That's what is discussed here and while some may never happen across a community like this again or are to participate in one, doesn't make them more right or validate their experiences/capabilities as more realistic/authentic. Participating here doesn't take away from what you do with your vehicle in your spare time.

Could you possibly generalize or stereotype any more?

 

[XJLI]

Beach launching boats, is our most often use for it. And Coshacton (sp?) county washed out flooded roads in the spring, or their washed out mountain roads with sharp turns in the spring. That's where we Toyota'd a couple GM front ends, crossed up, at extension. Same thing that eats taco's.

Not that one locker isn't enough, it just that we have to be gentle as possible on the sand. Similar to Ohio's version of "permafrost" grass, with slick clay mud underneath. Our hills have more in common with a swamp than Utah.

I'm on the beach all the time, and you don't need lockers, just less air pressure. I do understand blowing them at full extension, fully cross axle'd, putting power down, hopping on and off traction, etc; thats unfortunately unavoidable if it happens, and can happen with any IFS. I'd hope the CV blows before the diff.. since thats a relatively easy fix.

 

[NevadaLover]

Could you possibly generalize or stereotype any more?

That's funny, here you are calling out crazydrei for stereotyping, do you even remember what you previously post?

In my AO the majority of the type who own GM's are as follows:

* Those who want a truck that drives/rides/feels like a car or SUV
* Those who grew up with GM vehicles
* City boys and weekend warriors/garage tinkerer types
* Those who do very little towing

The diesel trucks are overwhelmingly Ford and Dodge/Ram as are those driven by farmers, ranchers, and company/work trucks.

That's an entire post of stereotyping and generalization!