Solar In The Desert

[john61ct]

Yes, should be at least good if not on par with those three.

Lots of the potential value eaten by shipping costs without local distribution.

Effectively no warranty if you have to pay shipping back.

But one of the top mainstream brands in Australia, marketed dominated by Chinese makers, very widely used and respected there.

I've heard make AGMs for relabeling brands here in NA market also.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Thanks for the feedback on the Full Rivers. I am about 20 miles from their distribution center so can pick up at will call and save shipping. Online dealer told me that warranty claims are a lot simpler than with Lifeline, just call dealer, go thru diagnosis and if battery legitimately failed in warranty, he calls warehouse and I just take my bad battery in for exchange. I think warranty is full replacement for first two years, then pro rata thru seven years. Net cost for three batteries may only be half the cost of Odyssey or Northstar, less of a differential for Lifeline because Lifeline does not make anything in a G34. Full River makes a G34 dual purpose that will fit, specs comparable to a Northstar.

Also stumbled across Chrome Battery, based in the midwest. Looks like they private label some of the batteries that Renogy sells. Will call them this week.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Heard about these from an RV solar installer in Yuma over the weekend. Trick-L-Start and Amp-L-Start. RV guy says it pretty much eliminates the need to charge both battery banks from solar because these units will pass up to 5 amps or 15 amps, depending on the model, whenever the house batteries have a charging source and the starter battery needs to be topped up. Programmable start-stop settings, isolation when there is no charge source present, fully potted in epoxy, etc. Interesting wrinkle in the solar installation analysis.

http://www.lslproducts.net/TLSPage.html

http://www.lslproducts.net/ALS_Overview_Page.html

Looks like the AMP-L-Start does essentially the same thing that the Xantrex Echo Charge does. The AMP-L-Start is fully potted in epoxy but it seems that the Xantrex is not.

http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-accessories/auxiliary-battery-charger.aspx

 

[DiploStrat]

Heard about these from an RV solar installer in Yuma over the weekend. Trick-L-Start and Amp-L-Start. RV guy says it pretty much eliminates the need to charge both battery banks from solar because these units will pass up to 5 amps or 15 amps, depending on the model, whenever the house batteries have a charging source and the starter battery needs to be topped up. Programmable start-stop settings, isolation when there is no charge source present, fully potted in epoxy, etc. Interesting wrinkle in the solar installation analysis.

http://www.lslproducts.net/TLSPage.html

http://www.lslproducts.net/ALS_Overview_Page.html

Looks like the AMP-L-Start does essentially the same thing that the Xantrex Echo Charge does. The AMP-L-Start is fully potted in epoxy but it seems that the Xantrex is not.

http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-accessories/auxiliary-battery-charger.aspx

Good products, work as advertised, the folks at AM Solar use them in mixed FLA/Lithium set ups. Might be useful as well in a B2B setup. (N.B. Sterling make their own version of this.)

BUT completely unneeded if you use an intelligent relay like the Blue Sea ACR.

Again, if you have a truck that sustains over 14.x volts, then all you need is a relay based system and, of course, the correct wiring. One advantage of an intelligent relay, over a key controlled relay, is that it takes care of maintaining your starter batter automatically, so you don't need any additional toys. I had this on my last truck and I know that it works, perfectly. Don't spend money on stuff you don't need.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

One advantage of an intelligent relay, over a key controlled relay, is that it takes care of maintaining your starter batter automatically, so you don't need any additional toys...Don't spend money on stuff you don't need.

As I read the doco on Trick-L, Amp-L, and Echo, they all seem to have switching built in, so that they only charge the starting battery when it needs it, as long as there is some charge (solar) going into the house batteries. They all disconnect when there is no solar. Advantage for me is that I can still use my solenoid isolator to manually control the alternator charging to all three batteries.

 

[DiploStrat]

Your money, spend as you wish. I just don't like adding extra gear (unless as a backup) or extra complexity.

-- The AMP-L-START and similar products are simply undersized voltage sensing relays limited to a trickle charge. They connect when they see programmed voltages, they disconnect when they see programmed voltages. They don't "only charge the starting battery when it needs it." None of these products do that; they simply read the voltage. The internal resistance of a battery determines when a battery does or does not take a charge. (That and the difference in voltage.) Don't ascribe any magic to any of these products - they simply read voltage and amperage flow. They are useful:

-- If you already have a key controlled or manual switch installed and in place.

-- You are using a B2B and want to add a trickle charge for your starter battery. (Scholars debate the utility of this at all. It is really only necessary if your vehicle is going to sit for long periods of time, especially in cold weather, without being driven.

-- You are mixing and matching different batteries, like lead acid and lithium, that cannot be left combined due to very different resting voltages.

-- An intelligent relay like the Blue Sea ACR 7620 will do everything that you want and it has a manual override. Much as I love REDARC products, the Blue Sea is probably the better product for your needs.

Add to that the biggest, baddest solar controller and as many panels as you can fit and a decent shore charger, I like inverter/chargers, and you are done. Put the system in automatic and let it work.

The only other thing you will need is a decent monitor:

-- Blue Sky offers a nice one with their better solar controllers. (This is what I used on my last truck.)

-- Magnum offers a battery monitoring module with their inverter/chargers. (This is what I use on my current truck.)

-- Lot's of folks swear by the TriMetric.

And, while I believe that a battery monitor is as essential as a fuel gauge, remember it is important that you know the state of your batteries, it is ESSENTIAL that your chargers know and respond it it, as automatically as possible.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Full River batteries are not the deal that I had been led to believe they would be. MAP pricing killed most of my discount and I have to pay $45 for the privilege of picking them up at will-call. Brings them close to the price of Northstars and Odysseys. I won't need them for another couple of weeks, so still time to look around.

 

[john61ct]

Odyssey for the win

 

[Ducky's Dad]

Have been replacing my Odysseys every three years like clockwork, looking to try something different.

Victron makes some marine deep cycles that should fit, but there are none in North America right now. Six weeks out, unless a distributor can find some. Looks like similar situation for their PWM-Duo Charge Controller. Lots of them in UK and AU and NZ, but don't seem to be any here. Have an email out to Victron.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

FWIW, GoPower in Canada makes a couple of two-bank controllers in PWM and MPPT, rated for operating temps up to 185F and 99% humidity. Problem is that their AGM settings use 14.4V for bulk and absorption, and the units are not programmable. They are working on BlueTooth programming but that is at least six months out.

No responses yet from RedArc or Victron.

 

[DiploStrat]

FWIW - GoPower was just taken over by a new company.

I have their latest PWM controller with 480w (160x3) of their panels. I can see around 25A under perfect conditions, but I prefer the Blue Sea that I had on my previous truck as it was more adjustable and used a true, shunt based monitor. Was more expensive, of course.

 

[john61ct]

Two-bank charging is not a usual nor necessary feature if it helps expand your search.

 

[DiploStrat]

Two bank charging is only useful if you have a one-way charging system, e.g. a B2B. It is a clever way to share solar charging but won't do you any good with shore power.

This is why an intelligent relay based system is so slick - a charge on either battery bank is shared with the other with no other bits or pieces needed. And since, in most cases, your shore charger is your largest (i.e. fastest) and most sophisticated (i.e. most customizable) and longest (e.g. overnight), it seems a pity to limit your choices of solar controllers.

Again, assuming that your vehicle voltage is appropriate for your batteries, I would recommend that you use an intelligent relay, and pick the solar and shore chargers that best fit the needs of your batteries. This is what I did and it worked perfectly for years.

 

[john61ct]

The key issue here is finding devices capable of continuing to operate in very extreme heat.

That's enough of a challenge without adding other unusual requirements.

Batteries aren't going to last so long in that setting either. . .

 

[DiploStrat]

Hmmmm. If we are really worried about sustain operations at over 110F, then take a page from dwh's book and buy the minimum sized FLA you can get away with and replace every year.

After a year in Djibouti, I have no desire to live in over 100F temperatures for any length of time. If you are really going to get that hot for any length of time, then I suspect that battery performance may be the least of you worries.