66mpg, 14" Ground Clearance, 3.2s 0-60mph, 1,800lb Payload, 826ft/lb torque, true 4x4, 66mpg.......

[brp]

It's also readily available and quick to refuel.




Actually modern engines do just fine in the cold...electric batteries not so much. How much cold weather testing did Tesla do in places like Michigan and Alaska? My cell phone battery depletes at the rapid rate in subzero temperatures. I understand that technology is not directly analogous to EV's, but EV's still have a similar issue which has yet to be resolved.




All of this sounds great on paper....I'm much more interested in hearing the real-world feedback from owner/operators with hands-on experience.

I think too that you have a very narrow view of what a truck is for. For towing/hauling loads in an urban environment, I'm sure EV's will see some implementation in the short term. I think the technology will need a lot of refinement and improvement before it is ready for general-purpose 4x4/truck applications.

It's also readily available and quick to refuel.

Hydrogen is not readily available, it takes a lot of energy to "make" it.


Actually modern engines do just fine in the cold...electric batteries not so much. How much cold weather testing did Tesla do in places like Michigan and Alaska? My cell phone battery depletes at the rapid rate in subzero temperatures. I understand that technology is not directly analogous to EV's, but EV's still have a similar issue which has yet to be resolved.




All of this sounds great on paper....I'm much more interested in hearing the real-world feedback from owner/operators with hands-on experience.

I think too that you have a very narrow view of what a truck is for. For towing/hauling loads in an urban environment, I'm sure EV's will see some implementation in the short term. I think the technology will need a lot of refinement and improvement before it is ready for general-purpose 4x4/truck applications.

Hydrogen is not readily available, it takes a lot of energy to "make" it.

Yes, Tesla does testing in Michigan, and I've owned a Tesla for four MN winters and the experience was way better than my Tacoma offered.

Your cell phone batteries are not the same and more importantly, have no thermal management.

 

[T-Willy]

Most of you guys are thinking worst case scenario with this truck. It will do perfectly as a daily driver which is what most of us to 90% of the time. When you want to head to the outback, stop somewhere for a couple of hours in the afternoon for a beer or two and plug in and you are good to go fo a few hundred miles of offroad for the next few days.

If you are camping, bring a couple of 100W panels and charge up while you hang out for breakfast every morning. If that all seems too leisurely to you, maybe you need to rethink why you are out traveling in the first place.

So, who knows electricity math? How long would it take to charge this truck with 3 100W panels and bright sunshine?

 

[Dalko43]

Hydrogen is not readily available, it takes a lot of energy to "make" it.

And it currently takes a lot of fossil fuel consumption (and pollution) to create electricity....there is no free lunch. At least not yet

Yes, Tesla does testing in Michigan, and I've owned a Tesla for four MN winters and the experience was way better than my Tacoma offered.

Way better how? Tacoma's, and all modern Toyota's for that matter, start up just fine in cold winters.

Your cell phone batteries are not the same and more importantly, have no thermal management.

They both use lithium ion batteries, correct? So the scale of the technology may be different, but the fundamental operating principles are the same.

Lithium ion batteries lose their charge more quickly in cold weather....and I'm pretty sure there have been articles confirming that this is an issue for Tesla vehicles as well.

 

[Bayou Boy]

And it currently takes a lot of fossil fuel consumption (and pollution) to create electricity....there is no free lunch. At least not yet



Way better how? Tacoma's, and all modern Toyota's for that matter, start up just fine in cold winters.



They both use lithium ion batteries, correct? So the scale of the technology may be different, but the fundamental operating principles are the same.

Lithium ion batteries lose their charge more quickly in cold weather....and I'm pretty sure there have been articles confirming that this is an issue for Tesla vehicles as well.

Dalko, the guy owns one and is telling you it does fine in Minnesota winters. Explain how you have experience otherwise? If you have seen articles, post the links. You're just arguing to argue with no basis in fact. Your cell phone does not translate to a $100,000 Tesla.

 

[dwh]

So, who knows electricity math? How long would it take to charge this truck with 3 100W panels and bright sunshine?

Well, that's about a quarter of a kilowatt per hour. So however many kilowatts the battery is, times four gives you hours, divide by twenty-four to get days.

EDIT: Woops. Days...

So the OJ article says 180 kilowatt hours. So 180 x 4 = 720 hours / say 6 hours a day of full power = 120 days to recharge.

 

[Clutch]

I was actually wondering why we don't see more development in the hydrogen fuel area. Short from a couple cars sold only in California I don't think anyone is really coming to market with anything else. If the goal in moving to EV's is to get away from using fossil fuels for environmental reasons, would a hydrogen vehicle be more environmentally friendly? (Ie: no mines for the batteries?) I also believe hydrogen would refuel in a similar manner to a gas vehicle...(no long recharge time) I am not very well versed in this area so I could be missing something....

Older article, but good information on different fuels here: https://www.greencarreports.com/new...gen-here-they-are-the-two-fuels-of-the-future

 

[Dalko43]

Dalko, the guy owns one and is telling you it does fine in Minnesota winters. Explain how you have experience otherwise? If you have seen articles, post the links.

I kind of assumed that I wouldn't need to, because this issue is common knowledge. But here you go:
Tesla owner feedback:
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/cold-weather-range-loss
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/standard-battery-vs-long-range-battery-cold-weather
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/model-s-battery-performance-extreme-cold-conditions
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/cold-arctic-weather-and-battery-life

Online articles:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro...e-of-the-tesla-model-s-electric-car/index.htm
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/tested-how-cold-weather-affects-ev-range-feature

Your cell phone does not translate to a $100,000 Tesla.

I understand there are differences. But at fundamental level, both use a similar technology: lithium ion batteries. That battery is susceptible to energy losses in very cold weather....that's been proven many times over with many different applications that use that type of battery. So I really don't understand why some people here take exception to that.

 

[Bayou Boy]

I kind of assumed that I wouldn't need to, because this issue is common knowledge. But here you go:
Tesla owner feedback:
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/cold-weather-range-loss
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/standard-battery-vs-long-range-battery-cold-weather
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/model-s-battery-performance-extreme-cold-conditions
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/cold-arctic-weather-and-battery-life

Online articles:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro...e-of-the-tesla-model-s-electric-car/index.htm
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/tested-how-cold-weather-affects-ev-range-feature




I understand there are differences. But at fundamental level, both use a similar technology: lithium ion batteries. That battery is susceptible to energy losses in very cold weather....that's been proven many times over with many different applications that use that type of battery. So I really don't understand why some people here take exception to that.

Fair enough. I didn't realize that. Most of the country doesn't live where it gets below zero. This is a nonissue for most of us.

 

[Dalko43]

Fair enough. I didn't realize that. Most of the country doesn't live where it gets below zero. This is a nonissue for most of us.

I agree that it's a non issue for most people, especially those who are just looking for a commuter. Plugging in your car during long periods of inactivity can probably help mitigate some of the cold weather issues.

But for people living, working and exploring (like us overlanders) in the northern states and Canada, it's a very relevant issue.

 

[T-Willy]

Well, that's about a quarter of a kilowatt per hour. So however many kilowatts the battery is, times four gives you hours, divide by twenty-four to get days.

EDIT: Woops. Days...

So the OJ article says 180 kilowatt hours. So 180 x 4 = 720 hours / say 6 hours a day of full power = 120 days to recharge.

Thanks. I've been looking for an excuse for a 120 day remote beach camp. This is perfect.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

Well, that's about a quarter of a kilowatt per hour. So however many kilowatts the battery is, times four gives you hours, divide by twenty-four to get days.

EDIT: Woops. Days...

So the OJ article says 180 kilowatt hours. So 180 x 4 = 720 hours / say 6 hours a day of full power = 120 days to recharge.

Not an ideal situation any way you look at it, but for arguments sake... 400 watt panels are available now and why would you necessarily need a full charge to get yourself to a grid connection? Besides, how many hours would it take you to make a gallon of gas?

 

[dwh]

Not an ideal situation any way you look at it, but for arguments sake... 400 watt panels are available now and why would you necessarily need a full charge to get yourself to a grid connection? Besides, how many hours would it take you to make a gallon of gas?

Well, AAA or a buddy could bring you a gallon of gas. Or 5.

Figure with a 3kw generator you could do a full charge in 60 hours. using maybe a 1/2 gallon of gas per hour.

 

[Scoutn79]

Well, AAA or a buddy could bring you a gallon of gas. Or 5.

Figure with a 3kw generator you could do a full charge in 60 hours. using maybe a 1/2 gallon of gas per hour.

Does a Lion battery take a reduced charge as it gets recharged like a lead acid does? Or can it take a full 3,000 watts for a full 60 hours? And is your genny up to a 100% duty cycle without weight 200 lbs? Even so if I have to carry 30 gals. AND a generator I might as well stick with internal combustion. Now if they could make the entire skin of the auto hi efficiency solar cells that would be nice.....as long as you have sun.

Darrell

 

[Regcabguy]

Another: Atlis claims it will deliver a 500 mile range truck with four separate wheel motors in 2020.

That's more like it. i'd like a hybrid version. Trying to find a charger on I-405 would be worse with the traffic.

 

[dwh]

Now if they could make the entire skin of the auto hi efficiency solar cells that would be nice.....as long as you have sun.

Darrell

Silicon solar cells have a maximum theoretical efficiency of around 30%. Someone, don't remember who right offhand...probably Sharp...set a new record high not long ago by hitting something like 21% or 22%.

NASA can get higher efficiency by not using silicon. But gallium-arsenide cells are a whole lot more expensive.

I doubt that even high-tech sprayed on solar nano-paint would produce more than a couple hundred watts. If it even existed, which it doesn't.