That's because, to them, it is all about image, despite what they claim after the fact. They think their lifts, 37s, and solid axles are somehow "manly" (whatever that means to them).
New Defender Rage/Hate Thread
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That's because, to them, it is all about image, despite what they claim after the fact. They think their lifts, 37s, and solid axles are somehow "manly" (whatever that means to them).
TrekkerOutdoors
Member
I used to "wheel" or go off-roading in the OHV parks. Now I'm more into overlanding, where it's more about the journey and less about trying to get stuck or break something. Stock LR's with more aggressive tires are more my speed.
Blaise
Well-known member
It's not that I don't think it's fun. I used to do trials on both pedal bikes and motorised ones. It was fun. But neither is something to use for travel or even a day trip. That would be utterly ridiculous. And these people are trying to make the equivalent argument that if your MX or "Adventure" bike can't do those obstacles, it can't be any good "offroad".
TrekkerOutdoors
Member
I used to go out with locals that mostly owned Jeep or Toyota, which is totally fine by me. Run what you brung, I always say. But it became obvious they were trying to put me and my LR into situations where taking damage was very probable. It's like they wanted to post up on YouTube this expensive, European SUV being destroyed at my expense. I got into mostly solo overlanding and never looked back at those chumps. It is funny how "overlanding" has become synonymous with the 2nd group, which is really wheeling with some weekend camping thrown in.
Here's my idea of adventure:
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Most Colorado trails have an "easy" path and a "hard" path. Road 21 comes to mind. Some are forgetting, by convenience of argument, that backcountry travel is for the enjoyment of the scenery and the drive whether you pick easy or hard that day. Easy and hard can be found on the same trail just feet apart. We are again back to your vehicle as a 'hobby' that can be customized for your expected use. There is a trend. The younger crowd prefers customization and the enjoyment of the hobby while the older crowd takes the easy path and 'aspires' to Luxury. There is a reason Land Rover and Jaguar are sold under the same roof. Jeep targets the younger crowd and reaps the benefits of a larger population and the volume that strategy brings to them.
New Icon. Had to. Thanks guys!
Haha!
TrekkerOutdoors
Member
Well said, same reason you don't see that many G-Wagons out there. Doesn't mean they aren't capable.
Maybe in the US Jeep targets the young (although the Cherokee is for the young?), but you seriously think that there are enough people doing your hobby - especially on a worldwide basis - that things like the Wrangler is the road to success? You cannot seriously think like that. The rock crawling fraternity is very small. And no one is taking your rock crawling toys away from you. You can still do your obstacles and tow it behind that RV like a lot of your frat friends.
TrekkerOutdoors
Member
This pairs nicely with all the "luxury" comments on this thread...
You can even see the thinking of managing 'best whatever' in the EU. A buyer makes decisions based on a list of critieria, not all of them driven by 'best'. Successful on-going businesses make compromises and customers understand that.
Jeep Wrangler Flunks European Safety Tests, But Sales Unlikely To Be Dented
- Buyers outlaying over 50,000 pounds ($62,800) on a car should expect more than a one-star safety rating.
- I don’t think buyers will be that bothered. They’ll just overlook the safety scores, or might not even be aware,
You would think that Jeep’s ambitious plans to sell up to 12,000 high profit margin new Wranglers in Europe a year would be hurt by news it fared poorly in a European safety test, but that doesn’t seem likely.
And then there is country loyalty. From another article:
“Unfortunately, most American manufacturers show no interest in the German market,” he said, and gives his Dodge as a prime example. First, he must get the car from a dealer in Canada, and then has to rebuild the car from the ground up to meet European safety specifications, which are more stringent than in the US.
The process adds about 30 percent to the American car’s sticker price, he said, so an import duty is really no impediment to the handful of enthusiasts who really want a muscle car. What most German car buyers want is a German-made car.
Jeep Wrangler Flunks European Safety Tests, But Sales Unlikely To Be Dented
- Buyers outlaying over 50,000 pounds ($62,800) on a car should expect more than a one-star safety rating.
- I don’t think buyers will be that bothered. They’ll just overlook the safety scores, or might not even be aware,
You would think that Jeep’s ambitious plans to sell up to 12,000 high profit margin new Wranglers in Europe a year would be hurt by news it fared poorly in a European safety test, but that doesn’t seem likely.
And then there is country loyalty. From another article:
“Unfortunately, most American manufacturers show no interest in the German market,” he said, and gives his Dodge as a prime example. First, he must get the car from a dealer in Canada, and then has to rebuild the car from the ground up to meet European safety specifications, which are more stringent than in the US.
The process adds about 30 percent to the American car’s sticker price, he said, so an import duty is really no impediment to the handful of enthusiasts who really want a muscle car. What most German car buyers want is a German-made car.
Well, the open air in Northern Europe aren't fun in a Wrangler. It can't tow and can't carry anything, the quality is abysmal, and it is generally a toy.
Hell, why not get a Mahindra, mpinco?
If I wanted "the best" vehicle for obstacle courses (not "offroad" as you keep conflating the two) I'd get a trials bike, or a road legal MX bike. Much better off road than the Wrangler. Oh, so you don't want "the best"? You want four wheels? You want seats, a steering wheel, and so on? You want those solid axles so you can modify the vehicle and inflate your "image" in the right circles? Yeah, those options aren't the best.
And once again: Your obstacle course is an extremely small part of what "offroad" means. Hell, I'd so purchase an amateur (i.e. cheap, not very powerful, not very comfortable) rally car over a modified rock crawling Wrangler.
Maybe in the US and around your parts in particular where it seems "cheap" trumps everything else. The new Defender is a global vehicle.
Hell, why not get a Mahindra, mpinco?
If I wanted "the best" vehicle for obstacle courses (not "offroad" as you keep conflating the two) I'd get a trials bike, or a road legal MX bike. Much better off road than the Wrangler. Oh, so you don't want "the best"? You want four wheels? You want seats, a steering wheel, and so on? You want those solid axles so you can modify the vehicle and inflate your "image" in the right circles? Yeah, those options aren't the best.
And once again: Your obstacle course is an extremely small part of what "offroad" means. Hell, I'd so purchase an amateur (i.e. cheap, not very powerful, not very comfortable) rally car over a modified rock crawling Wrangler.
Maybe in the US and around your parts in particular where it seems "cheap" trumps everything else. The new Defender is a global vehicle.
EricTyrrell
Expo God
Then the Disco 5 should fit your needs. That's the definition of the Discovery from day 1. Instead, it's become a pseudo-RR and the Defender name got appropriated to fill the gap.
I don't want a smaller light duty toy. I want the slightly larger, more capable, more interesting, more modular, more utility focused British competior; the Defender that could have been.