New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[nickw]

You do realize payload is based on physics and marketable drivability right? If you think any passenger vehicle Sold in the US thats as big or smaller than the wrangler will have a magically larger payload than even larger platforms. I have a bridge to sell ya with some cheap swamp land on the other side.

Marketable drivability goes both ways, it's why the Jeep / Raptor / ZR2 are marketed as an 'Offroad' vehicles...supple and soft suspension with miserable payload.

How much ride comfort does the average person need? Now how much comfort does an overlander, one who supposedly embraces discomfort, need? I've never once been so unsettled by even a (leaf-sprung) pickup truck to think "damn this thing is uncomfortable!" I guess it's just the state of mind that LR attracts in 2020. You guys should get one of these and ride center in total comfort.

View attachment 586731

Then you've obviously never spent any amount of time in a LC70 series or any older 4x4 vintage truck.....particularly one that is not loaded down.

 

[EricTyrrell]

Then you've obviously never spent any amount of time in a LC70 series or any older 4x4 vintage truck.....particularly one that is not loaded down.

They're harsh, but you get used to it, and at the end of the day still arrive at the destination. Back to Jeeps and trucks.. You're talking modern dual coil-sprung or leaf/coal sprung vehicles which are far better. Go test drive either setup. Ride quality is a non-issue.

 

[Corgi_express]

how much comfort does an overlander, one who supposedly embraces discomfort, need?

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. This very publication, the one on whose forum you are repeatedly vomiting out your ignorant opinions, has talked extensively about driver fatigue and its importance to overlanding, and in their in-depth review of the Defender called out the lack of driver fatigue as one of the main reasons it would be well suited as an overlander.

Embrace discomfort? Get lost with that wannabe macho nonsense. A vehicle that is creates less fatigue to drive creates a safer expedition, because it reduces driver mistakes.

Embracing discomfort is for bros going muddin' fifteen minutes from their parents' house in a beat up old junker. Adults who are trying to safely travel long distances to experience the culture and scenery of the world are embracing experience, not discomfort. Discomfort may be part of that experience, but it's something to be minimized as much as is reasonable to attain your other goals.

 

[JeepColorado]

I agree with a lot of what you say, but to think that throwing new shocks on a wrangler makes the on road performance comparable is laughable. I've owned multiple wranglers and love them, but they are what they are, and that is not good from an on road perspective when compared to virtually any other modern SUV.

I'm not saying that the Jeep will best the Defender in on-road comfort, even with good shocks- I don't think it would. The Defender will definitely ride nicer than the Jeep, but the JL is a dramatic improvement in on-road dynamics over past iterations and with some good shocks it's even better- I'd say in the same league as a D5 I've previously driven. How much on-road comfort do you need? If you need that 'inth degree of on-road plushness then a Wrangler is probably not for you. If ride comfort mattered that much to me I'd probably just stick to improved gravel roads and buy a Subaru.

 

[EricTyrrell]

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. This very publication, the one on whose forum you are repeatedly vomiting out your ignorant opinions, has talked extensively about driver fatigue and its importance to overlanding, and in their in-depth review of the Defender called out the lack of driver fatigue as one of the main reasons it would be well suited as an overlander.

Embrace discomfort? Get lost with that wannabe macho nonsense. A vehicle that is creates less fatigue to drive creates a safer expedition, because it reduces driver mistakes.

Nothing wrong with a smooth ride, but good luck telling all the overlanders traveling the world in non air-suspension vehicles how "dumb" and "macho" they are. Maybe they should complain more to align with your type.

 

[soflorovers]

As far as I can tell by the diagram I saw there are no ducts for the radiators. From what I read it could be that not all of them have the aux radiators. There looks to be room behind the winch mount where the aux radiators could be relocated into a single larger radiator, you should be able to sandwich it between the winch tray and factory main rad. View attachment 586618

Thanks for this diagram. I hadn't seen this before. I think your comment is on point. There's absolutely a way to make this work. The question is whether an aftermarket third-party will find it worthwhile to invest in the R&D required to do so. Tons of people love to use the Wrangler as an example of a vehicle that is very mod friendly because the OEM itself is very mod friendly. However, people also seem to forget that Jeeps sell in much higher quantities; it's simply fact due to various factors, with MSRP being one of the main ones. R&D costs for aftermarket LR parts need to be distributed among fewer units, and the product itself must appeal to a wider portion of total buyers since I imagine there are 20X the option for an equivalent product if you're searching for a Jeep v. a LR. Is it worthwhile for ARB, Tactical, Lucky8, etc... to each develop a different bumper and methodology for making one work? Probably not, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

EDIT: After looking at the Tactical 4x4 LR front winch bumper, I think there's a way to make this all work on the new Defender by relocating those coolers to the center and then opening up airflow to the central radiator/cooling compartment with slits/openings in the metal front bumper, just like Tactical did on the LR4 bumpers.

 

[Corgi_express]

Maybe they should complain more to align with your type.

Coming from the person who has spent dozens of pages whining, that's pretty rich.

 

[calicamper]

The founder of this site was just interviewed about his Africa trek in the new Rover. He said best comparison to existing vehicles here would be the 4runner. I have yet to see a 4 runner rated at 2000lb load capacity and the ones I’ve driven were pretty lousy when loaded heavy 1000-1200lbs regarding stability.
So again if your thinking this new Rover is going to be magically endowed with a payload higher than larger vehicles your living in a world the rest of us clearly don’t live in.

 

[Christian P.]

I am starting to think that some people here are shorting the JLR stock (TTN)...

 

[DieselRanger]

The founder of this site was just interviewed about his Africa trek in the new Rover. He said best comparison to existing vehicles here would be the 4runner. I have yet to see a 4 runner rated at 2000lb load capacity and the ones I’ve driven were pretty lousy when loaded heavy 1000-1200lbs regarding stability.
So again if your thinking this new Rover is going to be magically endowed with a payload higher than larger vehicles your living in a world the rest of us clearly don’t live in.

The 4Runner doesn't have EAS and has a solid rear axle, and is a ladder frame vehicle. The Defender is an order of magnitude stiffer and has EAS that automatically adjusts to load. I think it will live up to its 15,000lb GVWR with no problem.

 

[Carson G]

Thanks for this diagram. I hadn't seen this before. I think your comment is on point. There's absolutely a way to make this work. The question is whether an aftermarket third-party will find it worthwhile to invest in the R&D required to do so. Tons of people love to use the Wrangler as an example of a vehicle that is very mod friendly because the OEM itself is very mod friendly. However, people also seem to forget that Jeeps sell in much higher quantities; it's simply fact due to various factors, with MSRP being one of the main ones. R&D costs for aftermarket LR parts need to be distributed among fewer units, and the product itself must appeal to a wider portion of total buyers since I imagine there are 20X the option for an equivalent product if you're searching for a Jeep v. a LR. Is it worthwhile for ARB, Tactical, Lucky8, etc... to each develop a different bumper and methodology for making one work? Probably not, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

EDIT: After looking at the Tactical 4x4 LR front winch bumper, I think there's a way to make this all work on the new Defender by relocating those coolers to the center and then opening up airflow to the central radiator/cooling compartment with slits/openings in the metal front bumper, just like Tactical did on the LR4 bumpers.

That was my thought. I did some more research and found out that the i6 has two fans one that pulls air through the radiator just like the LR3/4 (it’s the identical fan assembly) and then it has a second one that pushes air from in front of the rad but that fan eats up all of the space in front of the main radiator. Now from what I could find out the pusher fan is not on all models I’m 75% sure the 4cyl doesn’t have it. Also from what I can tell those aux radiators are for the intercooler. The LR4 supercharged and 1st gen RRS supercharged has a single heat exchanger I front of the main radiator. I’m assuming Land Rover split it into two smaller ones on the D7u/x platform because of that pusher fan being needed on the higher output forced induction engine options. So on the 4cyl assuming it’ll fit I don’t see why you couldn’t use a LR4 heat exchanger, thermally it should be fine as well.

 

[Carson G]

The founder of this site was just interviewed about his Africa trek in the new Rover. He said best comparison to existing vehicles here would be the 4runner. I have yet to see a 4 runner rated at 2000lb load capacity and the ones I’ve driven were pretty lousy when loaded heavy 1000-1200lbs regarding stability.
So again if your thinking this new Rover is going to be magically endowed with a payload higher than larger vehicles your living in a world the rest of us clearly don’t live in.

More power, stiffer chassis, longer wheelbase, fully independent suspension, EAS, active shocks and bigger brakes make a huge difference in a vehicles towing and payload capacity. In theory lower profile tires have the advantage of greater stability as well.

 

[nickw]

The founder of this site was just interviewed about his Africa trek in the new Rover. He said best comparison to existing vehicles here would be the 4runner. I have yet to see a 4 runner rated at 2000lb load capacity and the ones I’ve driven were pretty lousy when loaded heavy 1000-1200lbs regarding stability.
So again if your thinking this new Rover is going to be magically endowed with a payload higher than larger vehicles your living in a world the rest of us clearly don’t live in.

I think your taking his comment out of context. As @DieselRanger points out, ability and safety when carrying a load for many vehicles is about suspension dynamics. This can clearly be seen by vehicles that are de-rated over their counterparts because of softer suspension, F150 vs Raptor and Ram 2500 vs Powerwagon, among others....same drive train, same brakes, much softer suspension. I'm guessing the same can be said for some of the Global vehicles like the LC 200 and some of the Jeeps in overseas markets that can be up-rated with stiffer suspension, everything else is the same....but trade-off is they don't ride well and since we live in a litigious environment, it's not technically 'legal' here in the US.

Air sus solves the problem, you can have your cake and eat it too....what's not to a) like about that or b) understand?

I really like the Ram Rebel because of this, excellent payload, ability to lift while offroad and ability to level when towing / hauling.

Not sure how the Defender compares directly to the 4runner, likely has bigger brakes, which point to it's use of larger wheels, it has a more powerful engine, is stiffer, etc. etc.

 

[nickw]

That was my thought. I did some more research and found out that the i6 has two fans one that pulls air through the radiator just like the LR3/4 (it’s the identical fan assembly) and then it has a second one that pushes air from in front of the rad but that fan eats up all of the space in front of the main radiator. Now from what I could find out the pusher fan is not on all models I’m 75% sure the 4cyl doesn’t have it. Also from what I can tell those aux radiators are for the intercooler. The LR4 supercharged and 1st gen RRS supercharged has a single heat exchanger I front of the main radiator. I’m assuming Land Rover split it into two smaller ones on the D7u/x platform because of that pusher fan being needed on the higher output forced induction engine options. So on the 4cyl assuming it’ll fit I don’t see why you couldn’t use a LR4 heat exchanger, thermally it should be fine as well.

Nice to see this convo turning from a &%*(# session into constructive "deconstruction" of the vehicle

 

[krick3tt]

Overlanders embracing discomfort is one, no ten, of the dumbest things I have ever heard. My word man, have you never gone driving off road?