2003 Suburban 1500 Pop Top Conversion
- Thread starter boll_rig
- Start date
Climberclimb
Observer
Hi. I cannot see the pictures!
Cheers
Cheers
jscusmcvet
Explorer
I cannot either, but, I am totally psyched for you Boll Rig!
boll_rig
Adventurer
Ill have to look at my google photos page again and see if i cant get the right image address so the bigger sizes work when I embed them.. Any one else have trouble getting google photos to embed?
Until I fix it here are the ones that didnt come up last time.
Still working through some reinforcing ideas in my head. Thinking of putting it back in the mold, back on the roof and glassing in some outside stringers running the length of the roof to hold shape better. Positives are that i know its not warping. negatives are that I have outside stringers.. Another idea i discussed with dratwagon would be to have someone weld me an aluminum roof rack that would actually run across the top and down the sidewalls for support which would both solve the load issue and hold its shape..
Until I fix it here are the ones that didnt come up last time.
Still working through some reinforcing ideas in my head. Thinking of putting it back in the mold, back on the roof and glassing in some outside stringers running the length of the roof to hold shape better. Positives are that i know its not warping. negatives are that I have outside stringers.. Another idea i discussed with dratwagon would be to have someone weld me an aluminum roof rack that would actually run across the top and down the sidewalls for support which would both solve the load issue and hold its shape..
boll_rig
Adventurer
So its been a while! Was doing a bit of traveling for the rest of the winter for snowboarding. But right before that, Miniorf and I headed to canyonlands to do the white rim trail, all 111miles of it in his tacoma and on my 1983 xr350. Highly recommend that one if you haven't done it. Heres a long exposure on my digital camera.
Also brought my hasselblad and shot some medium format film:
Anyway some slow progress has resumed on the old project over the last month or so. First thing I did when I was back was add those top stringers. Had to use whatever I could to suck those things to the top while the epoxy dried. I then crisscrossed lengths of 4 and 8 oz cloth over each stringer.
Then I covered the whole thing with two 8oz cloths overlapped. I used black pigment from system three at about 3-5% of total weight when mixing. Forgot who mentioned that but it worked well.
And here it is mocked up with roof rails and racks. Liking how its coming together.
One thing I noticed was that the black really soaked up the uv rays and the thing was like jello when I took it off. As soon as it was inside it hardened up again but i did notice a few tiny air bubbles that formed under the inside first layer which I had to cut out. Hopefully not a huge problem but it did remind me that I need to get this thing UV protected asap. I still havent decided on a finishing method. Options are get in Line X sprayed which has UV. or gel coat with UV then sand and paint. Leaning towards LineX/Rhino Lining but its a bit pricy, anyone have a thought on Rhino Lining?
Currently working on the internal reinforcement, filling in the corners with wood, more layups, and 1/2 inch aluminum tube around base.
Used some trim and 1/4 inch square rod all slightly floating in corners. and of course used everything I had to keep them in place.
Hopefully Ill be posting progress a little more often now. Let me know what you think.
Also brought my hasselblad and shot some medium format film:
Anyway some slow progress has resumed on the old project over the last month or so. First thing I did when I was back was add those top stringers. Had to use whatever I could to suck those things to the top while the epoxy dried. I then crisscrossed lengths of 4 and 8 oz cloth over each stringer.
Then I covered the whole thing with two 8oz cloths overlapped. I used black pigment from system three at about 3-5% of total weight when mixing. Forgot who mentioned that but it worked well.
And here it is mocked up with roof rails and racks. Liking how its coming together.
One thing I noticed was that the black really soaked up the uv rays and the thing was like jello when I took it off. As soon as it was inside it hardened up again but i did notice a few tiny air bubbles that formed under the inside first layer which I had to cut out. Hopefully not a huge problem but it did remind me that I need to get this thing UV protected asap. I still havent decided on a finishing method. Options are get in Line X sprayed which has UV. or gel coat with UV then sand and paint. Leaning towards LineX/Rhino Lining but its a bit pricy, anyone have a thought on Rhino Lining?
Currently working on the internal reinforcement, filling in the corners with wood, more layups, and 1/2 inch aluminum tube around base.
Used some trim and 1/4 inch square rod all slightly floating in corners. and of course used everything I had to keep them in place.
Hopefully Ill be posting progress a little more often now. Let me know what you think.
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02TahoeMD
Explorer
Yep most of the photos you have posted are visible. There are a couple missing in post #53, maybe one missing from a trip, another missing of the pop top project itself. I admire your project, cool stuff.
DD196
Observer
You can protect it from degrading with UV coatings but it's still going to get weak when it gets hot from the sun. Ever think about white for the pop top and the rest of the roof metal? I've read some studies that there can be over 50 degrees difference between the temp of white paint and black paint on a car. Would you rather have your fiberglass temp near ambient or ambient + 50? Look up the specs on your resin.
rayra
Expedition Leader
Excellent progress. My urge is to say gelcoat, but that's highly dependent on how smooth your glass work has been. A shiny surface will just accentuate any flaws or waves or unevenness. The bedliner would certainly be sturdy and also conceal a lot of sins. But would also add weight. Really depends what sort of rigid skeleton you graft into the thing, what your planned lifting mechanism is and how much weight the whole thing can handle.
It sounds like the aluminum rack acting as an exoskeleton would be a good solution and might even serve as the anchor or extension of your cap lifting setup. In essence your fiberglass shell becomes just a weather barrier with no significant structural strength of its own even required. It's a little late in the process for such a major change, and I hesitate to even suggest or endorse more changes, don't want to encourage you further down the path of more labor, unless it's a direction or experiment you want to pursue anyway. And you haven't cut the Sub roof open yet, so nothing is 'set' anyway until you do. So now would be the time to again re-evalaute. It's much like PappaWheely's off-road box van build. Big labor, big plans, infinite variables until you start closing off different paths by making various decisions. For some it's the meat of the whole thing. For some it's the extra burden that kills enthusiasm for a project.
At this point a rack as exoskeleton would seem to solve your framing and reinforcement issues. Even if it adds more work and expense. One way or another you need a support framework anyway, particularly to have a pop-top. I'd say go for the extra style points, you're in that deep anyway.
It sounds like the aluminum rack acting as an exoskeleton would be a good solution and might even serve as the anchor or extension of your cap lifting setup. In essence your fiberglass shell becomes just a weather barrier with no significant structural strength of its own even required. It's a little late in the process for such a major change, and I hesitate to even suggest or endorse more changes, don't want to encourage you further down the path of more labor, unless it's a direction or experiment you want to pursue anyway. And you haven't cut the Sub roof open yet, so nothing is 'set' anyway until you do. So now would be the time to again re-evalaute. It's much like PappaWheely's off-road box van build. Big labor, big plans, infinite variables until you start closing off different paths by making various decisions. For some it's the meat of the whole thing. For some it's the extra burden that kills enthusiasm for a project.
At this point a rack as exoskeleton would seem to solve your framing and reinforcement issues. Even if it adds more work and expense. One way or another you need a support framework anyway, particularly to have a pop-top. I'd say go for the extra style points, you're in that deep anyway.
boll_rig
Adventurer
Appreciate the replies guys.
db, I hope you know I took a lot of inspiration from your burban poptop. Still got the photo on my desktop. Love that thing! And I actually like the white on black you have but it helps that you have the original roof thats obviously white.
DD196, thanks for that info I knew it was a lot but not that high but I sure believe it now.
Rayra, I totally agree with your philosophy here and have been following PappaWheely's build of constant change. I dont mind the burden if it's unavoidable, I like to get things right. But I think that my plan as is might be structurally sound enough and I'll get to some photos in a minute and see what you guys think.
In terms of finishing for UV, I'm not at all worried about my flaws and inconsistencies, they display the work it took me to get there and I'm fine with that as long as it works, if someone wants to get up close and tell me about it, i'll gladly let them ha. That being said If I can cover them with rhino lining for a good price then I may do that. Ive talked to a guy and he says that they can put it on as thick or thin as you'd like, so its a possibility if it wont add much weight. On top of that I believe he said he could do other colors, even white perhaps.. I'll investigate. Anyone have experience with the stuff?
I guess I'm really just trying to keep it looking congruent with the vehicle, I love it all black and think it may look funny being white, what do you guys think? My plan was this, do a couple gel coats and then have the whole thing rhino lined essentially adding three layers of uv protectant. My question is do you guys think I will still have problems down the road. I know it will heat up but will it eventually start cracking, and becoming structually weak? A final thought would be to have the top white and sides black/dark charcoal to match...
Anyway.
So I put in some work last night both on the top and on the hinges. I got them a couple days ago from Derrek who had them welded to my specifications. We made them a little bulkier than what he would do for the astros. I originally had the 12in stroke actuators but they didn't put the roof as high as I wanted so I swapped them with 18in ones. He welded me the mounts and I got them all put together.
Heres a photo of them mocked up on the roof with the help from my brother. If you can tell the curve of the roof raises the ends of the track off the vehicle. Do you guys think I'll be okay with filling that gap with some large grade 8 washers, or should I use laid steel flat stock so there aren't gaps?
Spent most of the day attempting to shim this piece of 1/2 in birch sanded plywood to be flat against the contour of the roof, which is concave both left to right and front to back. But I dialed it in so there is enough good connection points I think. Haven't epoxied it down yet because I need to do the back one first. As you can see I finished the wooden rails as well.
So the plan is that the two cross beams of the hinges will rest on the ply. The front one will be clasped down in place as it doesnt move relative to its position above the vehicle. The back will slide across the back ply in a wooden track that will be covered over. The main problem you guys will see is my cantilevered and overhung roof as shown here, with racks mocked up:
Obviously a problem when the roof is loaded down but I've already decided that I will manually help the lifts for the 40 seconds it takes to raise it if theres load up there. They will do it no problem without load. Ive talked to derrek and he says beyond 150-200 lbs roof included the hinges start to bend, so thats why we went with bigger diameter ones. I can always take stuff off before I pop it up too.
To address the cantilever issue I am going to put struts that will be manually raised and rest in all four corners when its popped. That and keeping the load centered over the hinges. Thoughts?
My plan as of now for finishing the inside is to get some 3/4" aluminum square tube at 1/8 thick and epoxy it around inside of the roof edge and screw in L brackets to connect it, then I will sandwich the tent into that between a thin aluminum sheeting with screws. My roof rack bolts will go through the wooden ply sections (why I made them so wide) and through steel 2" flat stock L corners that I'm going to weld into a triangle with 3/8 rod. They will run 5 inches across the wood and all the way up to the aluminum and be epoxied to the sidewall. Before they go on though I am going to fill the wooden corners into a smooth 45 degrees and lay down mat across the wood, existing roof and up all the sidewalls, probably two or three layups on sidewalls. This was my plan to distribute the load straight from the roof rack to the roof of the vehicle and to save money and not have someone weld me an exoskeleton.
Heres a horrible diagram, obviously the fiberglass sidewall isnt cut in half by the tube:
Sorry for the mass amount of explanation, let me know if any of it doesnt make sense and as alwyas I appreciate any and all comments.
db, I hope you know I took a lot of inspiration from your burban poptop. Still got the photo on my desktop. Love that thing! And I actually like the white on black you have but it helps that you have the original roof thats obviously white.
DD196, thanks for that info I knew it was a lot but not that high but I sure believe it now.
Rayra, I totally agree with your philosophy here and have been following PappaWheely's build of constant change. I dont mind the burden if it's unavoidable, I like to get things right. But I think that my plan as is might be structurally sound enough and I'll get to some photos in a minute and see what you guys think.
In terms of finishing for UV, I'm not at all worried about my flaws and inconsistencies, they display the work it took me to get there and I'm fine with that as long as it works, if someone wants to get up close and tell me about it, i'll gladly let them ha. That being said If I can cover them with rhino lining for a good price then I may do that. Ive talked to a guy and he says that they can put it on as thick or thin as you'd like, so its a possibility if it wont add much weight. On top of that I believe he said he could do other colors, even white perhaps.. I'll investigate. Anyone have experience with the stuff?
I guess I'm really just trying to keep it looking congruent with the vehicle, I love it all black and think it may look funny being white, what do you guys think? My plan was this, do a couple gel coats and then have the whole thing rhino lined essentially adding three layers of uv protectant. My question is do you guys think I will still have problems down the road. I know it will heat up but will it eventually start cracking, and becoming structually weak? A final thought would be to have the top white and sides black/dark charcoal to match...
Anyway.
So I put in some work last night both on the top and on the hinges. I got them a couple days ago from Derrek who had them welded to my specifications. We made them a little bulkier than what he would do for the astros. I originally had the 12in stroke actuators but they didn't put the roof as high as I wanted so I swapped them with 18in ones. He welded me the mounts and I got them all put together.
Heres a photo of them mocked up on the roof with the help from my brother. If you can tell the curve of the roof raises the ends of the track off the vehicle. Do you guys think I'll be okay with filling that gap with some large grade 8 washers, or should I use laid steel flat stock so there aren't gaps?
Spent most of the day attempting to shim this piece of 1/2 in birch sanded plywood to be flat against the contour of the roof, which is concave both left to right and front to back. But I dialed it in so there is enough good connection points I think. Haven't epoxied it down yet because I need to do the back one first. As you can see I finished the wooden rails as well.
So the plan is that the two cross beams of the hinges will rest on the ply. The front one will be clasped down in place as it doesnt move relative to its position above the vehicle. The back will slide across the back ply in a wooden track that will be covered over. The main problem you guys will see is my cantilevered and overhung roof as shown here, with racks mocked up:
Obviously a problem when the roof is loaded down but I've already decided that I will manually help the lifts for the 40 seconds it takes to raise it if theres load up there. They will do it no problem without load. Ive talked to derrek and he says beyond 150-200 lbs roof included the hinges start to bend, so thats why we went with bigger diameter ones. I can always take stuff off before I pop it up too.
To address the cantilever issue I am going to put struts that will be manually raised and rest in all four corners when its popped. That and keeping the load centered over the hinges. Thoughts?
My plan as of now for finishing the inside is to get some 3/4" aluminum square tube at 1/8 thick and epoxy it around inside of the roof edge and screw in L brackets to connect it, then I will sandwich the tent into that between a thin aluminum sheeting with screws. My roof rack bolts will go through the wooden ply sections (why I made them so wide) and through steel 2" flat stock L corners that I'm going to weld into a triangle with 3/8 rod. They will run 5 inches across the wood and all the way up to the aluminum and be epoxied to the sidewall. Before they go on though I am going to fill the wooden corners into a smooth 45 degrees and lay down mat across the wood, existing roof and up all the sidewalls, probably two or three layups on sidewalls. This was my plan to distribute the load straight from the roof rack to the roof of the vehicle and to save money and not have someone weld me an exoskeleton.
Heres a horrible diagram, obviously the fiberglass sidewall isnt cut in half by the tube:
Sorry for the mass amount of explanation, let me know if any of it doesnt make sense and as alwyas I appreciate any and all comments.
Last edited:
dbreid
Adventurer
I actually agonized for quite a while about color. The top I have was actually tan originally. My first plan was to go all black. I was thinking silver stickers, and black top.
However, in thinking it over, I am personally glad I went white. At the end of the day, I built this for family fun. If it gets hot, that's no fun. Also I like the fact that I just kinda "owned" the reality that I have a huge, nonfactory thing on the roof.
For me, making it match too much wouldn't have been as good.
For the record, I also thought hard about silver or gray. But I figured the Germans painted most of them white for a reason.
However, in thinking it over, I am personally glad I went white. At the end of the day, I built this for family fun. If it gets hot, that's no fun. Also I like the fact that I just kinda "owned" the reality that I have a huge, nonfactory thing on the roof.
For me, making it match too much wouldn't have been as good.
For the record, I also thought hard about silver or gray. But I figured the Germans painted most of them white for a reason.