2017 4runner v 2017 Landcruiser

[hoser]

And by the way, thank you for at least acknowledging that Toyota LC fanboys do in fact exist. I'm not picking fights with certain LC owners because I have some sort of inferiority complex. I just have a hard time staying silent when I see some of the myopic and unverified statements that are passed off as fact around here. Let's review what we've seen so far:
1) Toyota LC's are 10x better than domestic 4x4's.
2) Toyota LC's have a 25 year service life.
3) LC 80's inline 6 gasser is a million mile engine.
4) LC 80 had a transmission derived from a bus.

I've yet to see any sources for these "facts" but they certainly do get regurgitated around here as if they were derived from holy scripture.

I can't say I'm a fanboy but rather a long time enthusiast. I would certainly love to own a Y61 Patrol or G-wagen... even a LWB Samurai. A Ford F250 or PowerWagon would be great too if I needed a larger truck. Anyway, I can answer some of those questions....

The early FZJ80 had an A442F transmission which is very similar to A442E transmission available on the Toyota Coaster. Not quite a bus but rather a mini-bus. This is not hard to prove as there are many of them still around.

The 1FZ-FE inline 6 engine was said to be a 900K Kilometer engine (not 1 million mile). 300k km's per re-bore's... and 2 rebore's. And the reference was to magazine/book article, and not something officially from Toyota. Why would they?

I don't know about the 25 year service life but I want to say it was from a translated interview or article from the mid 90's. Not really difficult to believe as there are many 25+ year old Land Cruisers running around Africa and Australia. I personally have 3 LC's older than 25 years, two of them on the original engine/transmission.

The 4th fact about the LC being 10x better than domestic 4x4 is completely false. They are only 2x better. =)

 

[moonshiner]

Reliability Data for Jeep Wrangler
http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Jeep_Wrangler.html

Reliability Data for Toyota Land Cruiser
http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Toyota_Land_Cruiser.html

The Wrangler is actually pretty reliable but not as good as the Land Cruiser. But Wranglers also seem to be driven a lot less than Land Cruisers or there's a lot more newer ones. And the scoring accounts for age as newer vehicles should have fewer issues (in theory).

The data is from inspection records of vehicles that go through dealer auctions. So it's not from owner survey but from people who inspect vehicles for a living.

Edit:
As you can see from the mileage distribution, a significant percentage of Land Cruisers have over 200k miles.

 

[perterra]

Reliability Data for Jeep Wrangler
http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Jeep_Wrangler.html

Reliability Data for Toyota Land Cruiser
http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Toyota_Land_Cruiser.html

The Wrangler is actually pretty reliable but not as good as the Land Cruiser. But Wranglers also seem to be driven a lot less than Land Cruisers or there's a lot more newer ones. And the scoring accounts for age as newer vehicles should have fewer issues (in theory).

The data is from inspection records of vehicles that go through dealer auctions. So it's not from owner survey but from people who inspect vehicles for a living.

Edit:
As you can see from the mileage distribution, a significant percentage of Land Cruisers have over 200k miles.

Interesting stuff, thanks

 

[TonyLC]

Edit: And why hasn't anyone posted a Toyota pamphlet indicating that LC 200's come with a 25 year service life? I thought that was a well-known fact.

This was spoken by Toyota's head of 200-series testing in Colorado earlier this year.

 

[islandthymetaco]

Reliability Data for Jeep Wrangler
http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Jeep_Wrangler.html

Reliability Data for Toyota Land Cruiser
http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Toyota_Land_Cruiser.html

The Wrangler is actually pretty reliable but not as good as the Land Cruiser. But Wranglers also seem to be driven a lot less than Land Cruisers or there's a lot more newer ones. And the scoring accounts for age as newer vehicles should have fewer issues (in theory).

The data is from inspection records of vehicles that go through dealer auctions. So it's not from owner survey but from people who inspect vehicles for a living.

Edit:
As you can see from the mileage distribution, a significant percentage of Land Cruisers have over 200k miles.

I was also talking about historically, with all Wranglers compared to their Land Cruiser counterparts. Yes the 200 series is more reliable than the current Wrangler, but the same can absolutely be said for the 100 series and 80 series.

 

[tacollie]

What is a 25 service life actually mean? That Toyota will produce parts for a full 25 years after production? I'm just curious.

 

[Dalko43]

The early FZJ80 had an A442F transmission which is very similar to A442E transmission available on the Toyota Coaster. Not quite a bus but rather a mini-bus. This is not hard to prove as there are many of them still around.

The 1FZ-FE inline 6 engine was said to be a 900K Kilometer engine (not 1 million mile). 300k km's per re-bore's... and 2 rebore's. And the reference was to magazine/book article, and not something officially from Toyota. Why would they?

I don't know about the 25 year service life but I want to say it was from a translated interview or article from the mid 90's.

I think this proves my point. People tend to take a grain of truth and then hype it up. Not the exact same transmission as the one in a mini-bus, but similar. Not a million mile engine, but rated for 900k km's (~550k miles) with 2 rebores (a technique that is not exclusive to Toyota's). Supposedly all LC's come with a 25 year service life because it was stated in an article (not referenced) from the 90's.

Does anyone have actual sources for all those points? For example, I would think if there was an article indicating that LC's have 25 year service lives it shouldn't be hard to find a link to it.

 

[hoser]

The "F" in A442F is for Four Wheel Drive. The Coaster is RWD. You can compare the internals of both if you would like.
A442E RWD
A442F 4WD

Here's a Coaster...


https://www.ramadbk.com/japanese-used-toyota-coaster-buses_534365.html

 

[WOODY2]

Dang, lots of thin skin in this thread.:coffeedrink:

Yup, sounds like the backseat in a station wagon on the family vacation. Buy'm both and smile ,i did

 

[hoser]

Here's that 900km article... 186K miles between "rebores" might not sound that impressive today but this article was written 25 years ago.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/interesting-1fz-fe-80series-article.401807/

I don't know what is meant by "service life" but as far as 25 years.... here is a reference regarding the 100 series.

"Excerpts from article in Automotive Industries, Feb. 1998, by Lindsay Brook

Design/Engineering: Chassis

Design of UZJ100, as the '98 Cruiser program is coded, was frozen in mid-1994, says veteran chief engineer Takeo Kondo. At that point, the previous FJ80 model was three years old. And as on every previous Cruiser, UZJ100 has body-on-frame construction.
"There was never any consideration of unibody design," Kondo tells AI. "Long-term durability has always been the number one goal of the Land Cruiser program," he explains, "and we expect these vehicles to be on the road for at least 25 years." Range Rover was the program's primary benchmark, particularly for suspension articulation, chassis stiffness and interior appointments."

 

[Upland80]

Well that sure shut him up for a while...thanks hoser! :clapsmile

 

[chadwicksavage]

Oh he's seen that article and excerpt before on this very forum. That's how I found it 2-3 days ago. It didn't change his mind then or now. Also why I haven't bothered to comment. He's obviously an angry troll, as he has these discussions fairly often apparently.

 

[Upland80]

Oh he's seen that article and excerpt before on this very forum. That's how I found it 2-3 days ago. It didn't change his mind then or now. Also why I haven't bothered to comment. He's obviously an angry troll, as he has these discussions fairly often apparently.

You can lead a horse to water...

 

[Ryanmb21]

Nice input Hoser!

 

[toylandcruiser]

What he said. F250 has an optional rear locker, but no front locker.




What kinds of issues were American trucks having? Could you be more specific? The roads in areas like Iraq and Afghanistan aren't all that bad compared to the BLM and forestry roads in the remote parts of the US and Canada, so stop making such a big deal about that. In fact, I'd argue that some of the remote roads in North America can be worse.

All the miners, loggers, farmers, energy and other industrial workers use American trucks on fairly rough roads throughout their working lives; those people don't seem to have any major problems. This idea that Toyota is the only company capable of making a reliable and robust 4x4 in this modern era is laughable. You're believing what you want to believe and ignoring those data points that don't conform to those beliefs.




My argument is invalid if I can't provide an opinion on the subjective topic of which vehicle makes for the best overlander? "Invalid" would suggest there is some true or false aspect to this discussion; there isn't. This discussion is entirely subjective.

The Ram Power Wagon and Jeep Wrangler are both tested and well regarded platforms in the overlanding community. The Ford Raptor, while limited on payload, has a chassis that is arguably over-engineered for the type of driving that most overlanders do. Whether or not any of those are better than something like a LC is entirely subjective and not worth arguing over; it's up to an individual to figure that out.

And by the way, thank you for at least acknowledging that Toyota LC fanboys do in fact exist. I'm not picking fights with certain LC owners because I have some sort of inferiority complex. I just have a hard time staying silent when I see some of the myopic and unverified statements that are passed off as fact around here. Let's review what we've seen so far:
1) Toyota LC's are 10x better than domestic 4x4's.
2) Toyota LC's have a 25 year service life.
3) LC 80's inline 6 gasser is a million mile engine.
4) LC 80 had a transmission derived from a bus.

I've yet to see any sources for these "facts" but they certainly do get regurgitated around here as if they were derived from holy scripture.

Suspension failing. Engines failing to start or running like crap once started.

The areas I was in the roads were crap. The fords and chevys however never left the fob. My experience with domestic trucks is far from stellar. Maybe I just have bad luck