2020 Defender Spy Shots....

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DieselRanger

Well-known member
BMW also near introduction of a Hydrogen Fuel Cell based powertrain that addresses range and temperature issues of BEV's. Intro of phase I is expected in 2020. Phase II mid-2020's

A BEV Land Rover makes zero sense.

BMW's partner for this technology? ........... Toyota.

BMW and Toyota to share hydrogen fuel cell technology
Ah, good, the one technology with even less infrastructure and worse carbon footprint (due to production as a byproduct from natural gas extraction) than batteries.

It's a press ploy, as any hydrogen fuel cell research these days ultimately is.
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
I really like the idea so long as it's something I initiate and it's clear they are not tracking. I.E.- you get a message like you do now that says you are due for a software update, but you have to accept to connect with JLR's computers, then the download completes and it disconnects.
This is exactly what they are exploring in their focus groups. SOTA is highly desired - why should I have to go to the dealer? As long as you come to me if/when it gets bricked with a loaner. UK Disco 5's are getting SOTA infotainment updates. Hasn't been enabled for NAS market yet.

As far as selling your own data back to them - agree it's a minefield and responses to that question in focus groups has been very vocal. If you can choose what and when to sell data, then maybe, for a price which I name. I also feel like governments should never be granted access to any personally identifying information in that data without a warrant. Small comfort in countries without our Constitution and its 4th Amendment, but even that has yet to really be tested with respect to digital data in a US high court.
 
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DieselRanger

Well-known member
Good article overall, certainly makes me see the new Defender in a different light. ...
... The biggest problem with all of this is that while the vehicles struggles to regain momentum it's often lurching as the wheels spin leading to breakage.
They were explicitly comparing the old Defender and the technology available in modern Range Rovers.

As he states in the article, "... But while this new model will reference the old with some design elements, key details also reveal a vehicle that couldn’t be more different than the old one. And that is upsetting enthusiasts of the original—largely because most of them have never actually driven one of the old ones."

Spot on.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
Ah, good, the one technology with even less infrastructure and worse carbon footprint (due to production as a byproduct from natural gas extraction) than batteries.

It's a press ploy, as any hydrogen fuel cell research these days ultimately is.
Hydrogen is a energy storage medium, same as batteries but without the limitations of range and environment. Non-dispatchable solar and wind generated electricity with electrolyser's are used to convert water to hydrogen. Fuel cells then convert that hydrogen back to electricity and water. Byproducts? Water.

Infrastructure is currently an issue but that is being developed as fuel cell commercial truck development is moving forward. DHL and FedEx are both in early deployments stages. Nikola is building out 700 stations for their OTR trucks that have a range of 800 miles.
 

JeepColorado

Active member
They were explicitly comparing the old Defender and the technology available in modern Range Rovers.

As he states in the article, "... But while this new model will reference the old with some design elements, key details also reveal a vehicle that couldn’t be more different than the old one. And that is upsetting enthusiasts of the original—largely because most of them have never actually driven one of the old ones."

Spot on.

I don't disagree that the new Defender will have better command of the terrain than the old one-frankly, I think it'd be hard for it not to be better than the old one with open differentials and no articulation, my point is that no matter how great the traction control is in the new Defender, it's still not as a good as lockers because you enter every situation needing to lose traction and the momentum that comes with it before your traction control kicks in. Maybe LR has changed that with the new Defender. Until the technology of traction control can get to a point where it can read the terrain and sense that a loss of traction is coming and engage prior to loosing traction, it will never beat lockers. However, I do give LR credit for trying to drive technology that direction and I'll be celebrate it when it happens- as I understand it, traction control just isn't there yet. I think it'd be amazing if the Defender is capable of reading terrain in front of you, recognizing that you are about to lose traction and engaging power in all wheels prior to the loss; until then I think lockers will always beat traction control.
 

blackangie

Well-known member
I don't disagree that the new Defender will have better command of the terrain than the old one-frankly, I think it'd be hard for it not to be better than the old one with open differentials and no articulation, my point is that no matter how great the traction control is in the new Defender, it's still not as a good as lockers because you enter every situation needing to lose traction and the momentum that comes with it before your traction control kicks in. Maybe LR has changed that with the new Defender. Until the technology of traction control can get to a point where it can read the terrain and sense that a loss of traction is coming and engage prior to loosing traction, it will never beat lockers. However, I do give LR credit for trying to drive technology that direction and I'll be celebrate it when it happens- as I understand it, traction control just isn't there yet. I think it'd be amazing if the Defender is capable of reading terrain in front of you, recognizing that you are about to lose traction and engaging power in all wheels prior to the loss; until then I think lockers will always beat traction control.
Based on comments from offroad alliance guys that have actually seen it at moab, they think its f/r locked, so if its not front locked, it seems they may "be there" as you say.


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Red90

Adventurer
They were explicitly comparing the old Defender and the technology available in modern Range Rovers.

As he states in the article, "... But while this new model will reference the old with some design elements, key details also reveal a vehicle that couldn’t be more different than the old one. And that is upsetting enthusiasts of the original—largely because most of them have never actually driven one of the old ones."

Spot on.
The old one had traction control just like a Range Rover.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
JLR and BMW partnership on next gen powertrain is just the first of several new industry partnerships that will be required for survival.

China Auto Sales Just Posted Their Worst Month Ever
Wed, 06/12/2019

".......The future turned even gloomier when outgoing Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche said last month that "sweeping cost reductions" are coming to prepare for what he is calling "unprecedented" industry disruption.

Bank of America Merrill Lynch analyst John Murphy said at the same time: “The industry is right now staring down the barrel of what we think is going to be a significant downturn. The pace of decline in China is a real surprise.”

Bank of America had also commented that "the auto cycle has peaked" in a note put out about a week ago.

Global automakers have invested billions, betting that China would continue to grow, even in the face of pronounced slowdowns in Europe in North America............."


JLR NA sales increased over the last quarter based on significant marketing/advertising push, more than I have ever seen. I wouldn't be surprised to see JLR prioritize products for NA. Hoping that translates to a broader Defender product line.
 

JeepColorado

Active member
Sjoe, if this thing has TC + both rear & front e-diffs, it will be unstoppable!!!

That would be incredible! Not even sure how that would work- I guess a rear locker would be constant and the front would be TC (brake-control driven) and this would be the default off-road posture, then if you want, you'd select a front locker turning off the TC; leaving on the rear locker- you'd be fully locked. Then you could turn off the front leaving the rear engaged and TC up front once you no longer need the front locker? That would be a game changer.
 

blackangie

Well-known member
And with long travel multi link cool springs on live axles? Oh crap, Jeep already makes that.
Live axles coil srping vehicles are dying out like leaf springs did when coils were invented.

IFS gives best of both worlds, one things for sure LR will get the most travel possible out of them for the new defender.

Imo if is more capable than anything LR have ever produced as they say it will be, IFS is not going to matter, only get the added safety, comfort and low riding efficiency that air ifs provides.

I have always been a solid axle RRC guy, but this thing has turned me to the dark side.

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