2020 Defender Spy Shots....

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blackangie

Well-known member
I certainly did not wish to offend the mall cruiser crowd.

FYI this sentence could be seen as trying to pigeon hole and vilify people that may not go off-road as much as you apparently do which could be seen as offensive, just a thought. If someone wants to buy one of these for going to the mall good on them, if someone wants to buy one of these to cross the desert, good on them.
If someone wants to buy one to do both of the above, high 5 imo.

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blackangie

Well-known member
661e0ec6773939f5173d393b3bfde9c9.jpg


Quick mess around in photoshop. There’s definitely potential


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Well done!!

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TexasTJ

Climbing Nerd
FYI this sentence could be seen as trying to pigeon hole and vilify people that may not go off-road as much as you apparently do which could be seen as offensive, just a thought. If someone wants to buy one of these for going to the mall good on them, if someone wants to buy one of these to cross the desert, good on them.
If someone wants to buy one to do both of the above, high 5 imo.

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#triggered

All in good fun. ?
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
D5 if average ticket price was AU100,000 (its probably more) sells 40k units per year, thats AU 4 billion in sales(2.7billion US), hardly struggling. Similar sales numbers to the RRVougue.

This to me looks nothing like the D5 inside or out.

SOTA and FOTA is no different to you mobile phone in terms of functionality.

Data sharing outgoing will be opt in from LR, there are articles on it, they will pay in bitcoin for it, if and when that is released.

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- In the NA market D5's are selling at 1/2 the Velar, a third of the D1/D2. That discussion is already done. There is a reason LR posted a huge loss that shocked the automotive market. Actual profit is not linear. You have to sell a minimum number of a model or the sunk cost result in a loss, which is why every manufacturer is talking partnerships. Oh, and don't look at recent Tata volumes. Eeek!

- Never said the Defender looks like a D5. The D5 stands on its own, as does it sales numbers.

- SOTA is on your mobile phone but can be disabled and the phone can be shut off. I also am not interested in paying for a LR service which I'm sure they are going to try an sell everyone. LR has to recover cost someway, same as Facebook which is 'free'! (LOL) In addition the recent news was how easy it was to steal a LR that had the keyless entry. Now let's add in on-board SOTA! Blackberry has its work cut out for them.

- Not at all interested in bitcoin. Wow, what a insecure 'currency'. Another gimmick.

As I said when I need a replacement for my LR4 the new Defender may be an option. I will know is 2-3 years. I am never an initial production customer which really are beta testers. In addition the initial surge will be over and dealers will be more willing to deal. Plus the initial impulse buyers will be selling and depreciation will be in effect.

In many ways the new Defender is what we all wanted with the D5. Financially LR should have brought out the Defender first and then followed up with an entrant into a new market segment with a 'new product line name'. In fact I would have discontinued the Discovery line and reintroduced it down the road.
 

blackangie

Well-known member
- In the NA market D5's are selling at 1/2 the Velar, a third of the D1/D2. That discussion is already done. There is a reason LR posted a huge loss that shocked the automotive market. Actual profit is not linear. You have to sell a minimum number of a model or the sunk cost result in a loss, which is why every manufacturer is talking partnerships. Oh, and don't look at recent Tata volumes. Eeek!

- Never said the Defender looks like a D5. The D5 stands on its own, as does it sales numbers.

- SOTA is on your mobile phone but can be disabled and the phone can be shut off. I also am not interested in paying for a LR service which I'm sure they are going to try an sell everyone. LR has to recover cost someway, same as Facebook which is 'free'! (LOL) In addition the recent news was how easy it was to steal a LR that had the keyless entry. Now let's add in on-board SOTA! Blackberry has its work cut out for them.

- Not at all interested in bitcoin. Wow, what a insecure 'currency'. Another gimmick.

As I said when I need a replacement for my LR4 the new Defender may be an option. I will know is 2-3 years. I am never an initial production customer which really are beta testers. In addition the initial surge will be over and dealers will be more willing to deal. Plus the initial impulse buyers will be selling and depreciation will be in effect.

In many ways the new Defender is what we all wanted with the D5. Financially LR should have brought out the Defender first and then followed up with an entrant into a new market segment with a 'new product line name'. In fact I would have discontinued the Discovery line and reintroduced it down the road.

Defender was profitable @ 20k units
Disco 5 is profitable @ 40k units
JLR made profit first quarter this year from memory, full year loss due to asset writedown not lack of D5 sales .

Your phone will cease to work if you don't update it due to apps, car prob wont but it will keep getting better with SOTA & FOTA Its via sim card, pop your sim in when you want to update or use wifi at home or hotspot off your phone.

Outgoing data will be opt in and you will be paid (optional) and again only if you have sim in.

Don't like it, don't put a sim in and go to dealer every time you want an update, but that would be like going to apple or samsung everytime your phone pings u for an update.

Bitcoin is a currency which removes banks, not really any more a gimmick than other currencies imo.

Your buying logic sounds sound



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BarryO

New member
Hanging stuff off the sides is just asking for them to get ripped off by trees and bushes. I have been on trails where side clearance is minimal and the stripes I get are significant. If you are selling this for mall cruisers then I guess the picnic crowd will surely like it.

You mean like this?

Around here there are plenty of desert trails with no tree branches or bushes, but that doesn't make travelling on them "mall cruising". Yea there are forest trails where side clearance is an issue, just as there are some with limited vertical clearance where using a roof rack is asking for trouble. So you tailor your rig for anticipated conditions. Just because you can't use a roof rack or side-mounts in all conditions doesn't mean they might not be useful at times.
IMG_2797.jpg
 

rlynch356

Defyota
Holy crap is this thread 90% black rangie as well..

Anyway side mounted stuff where you have trees and rocks generally gets ripped off (at least on the USA easy coast) trails are tight.
Wide open, who cares.. I guess. Don’t like it in general though.

tomorrow it comes out and hopefully the threads can take a more pointed turn to pluses and minuses rather than purely marketing driven stuff we have seen thus far.

Anyway I believe cost is gong to define the success of this rather than anything else. Imho at a price point in the us of over 10% of a wrangler base it will appeal to a casual user, until the 2-3rd owner’s buy them and actually use them off road.
Again it’s initial cost vs competition is going to decide the marketability.
 

treckin

Member
I’m mostly interested in the air suspension setup, geometry, and whether they got additional travel or anything else out of the LR3/4/5 system.

The unibody looks like a total miss to me, but we’ll see.

The way unibody works is sort/of anathema to heavy duty work. The strength of the chassis system is spread out over the entire structure, which means that while the entire unit may measure as more “stiff” depending on how you measure, something like the front bumper supports (for mounting armor/removing facias) are likely decidedly weaker.

Often, the design paradigm is different for unibody vs body on frame. For highest crash ratings, unibody is usually the only chassis option besides monocoque that will pass muster, and this is because of crumple zones for ablating kinetic energy.

Crumple zones are great at maintaining cabin integrity and reducing peak g-load on occupants, but tend to be one-trick ponies otherwise.

I would be concerned about any sort of impact, even mild contact with obstacles could collapse a “crash can” or failed design point, and either total the vehicle or cause many many thousands of dollars in damage.

Similarly, rough action at the control arm clevises could easily break or bend the mounts, essentially totaling the vehicle.

On a body-on-frame vehicle, all of the above can be repaired.

Here’s the grabs from the video of the Body in White (BIW):
26CE5311-6963-44DE-9515-A8586314F7A5.jpegAF7EA8F7-C271-4D12-9F71-71E66DBECE01.jpeg
 
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