2020 EarthCruiser?

Thanks Michelle. How should I interpret the website showing 82”? It matters to me as I’m 79” with shoes. Make or break for me.
I actually just got the final answer on this question today! Sorry it took so long. It is somewhat of an open ended answer, but I'll give you what I have. The new V8 chassis sits up higher than the old version, in order to keep the overall height the same, the roof panel had to be redesigned. That new roof has yet to be installed, so the actual interior height is still not exact. All of the CAD drawings show that it should be 82" in the main area of the house (the area right in front of the kitchen). The past models are around 85" in this same area. BTW...we still have one diesel platform available to build on....OMEGA could give you everything you need in both height and performance! Plus, we might even make you a good deal and you can still pick your own options!! Let me know if you are interested in seeing what we can do for you on that build! https://earthcruiser.com/our-vehicles/omega-the-last-diesel/
 

gregmchugh

Observer
Some new videos on the interior and systems of the new EC.
Two interesting things I noted in the videos.

1. The shower water recycling system returns the water to the water tank after filtering and disinfection, was not sure how it was set up but that makes sense and it is the simplest solution. Not sure about hours of showering with hot water. I guess it depends on how quickly the Webasto Dual Top can reheat water in a continuous flow mode. Our Dual Top can run out of hot water at high flow rates depending on how hot you have the water (Dual Top hot water tank holds 11 liters).

2. I did not know that you can run the Dual Top on Kerosene and that it can go to higher altitudes when using Kerosene. Learn something new every day. Since the Dual Top is usually taking fuel from the vehicle fuel tank there is no easy way to use Kerosene but with the auxiliary fuel tank for the Dual Top it would be simple. XP Camper did the same setup for the Dual Top fuel tank on some rigs.
 

pugslyyy

Expedition Vehicle Engineer Guy
Two interesting things I noted in the videos.

1. The shower water recycling system returns the water to the water tank after filtering and disinfection, was not sure how it was set up but that makes sense and it is the simplest solution. Not sure about hours of showering with hot water. I guess it depends on how quickly the Webasto Dual Top can reheat water in a continuous flow mode. Our Dual Top can run out of hot water at high flow rates depending on how hot you have the water (Dual Top hot water tank holds 11 liters).

2. I did not know that you can run the Dual Top on Kerosene and that it can go to higher altitudes when using Kerosene. Learn something new every day. Since the Dual Top is usually taking fuel from the vehicle fuel tank there is no easy way to use Kerosene but with the auxiliary fuel tank for the Dual Top it would be simple. XP Camper did the same setup for the Dual Top fuel tank on some rigs.
Yep, kerosene burns a bit better than diesel because it is thinner. I talked with Webasto about it a little while ago actually. The Dual Top doesn't have automatic altitude compensation like some of their other heaters, but you can adjust the fuel mix to make it run a bit rich at sea level and get a better burn (not so lean) at altitude.
 

Semiquixotic

New member
I wonder if there are strong contenders for all electric or gasoline heater/water heaters. It seems if you go for the induction top, eliminating the need for diesel/kerosene would be the obvious next step. It seems odd and additionally complex to have a third fuel in the mix.
 

pugslyyy

Expedition Vehicle Engineer Guy
I wonder if there are strong contenders for all electric or gasoline heater/water heaters. It seems if you go for the induction top, eliminating the need for diesel/kerosene would be the obvious next step. It seems odd and additionally complex to have a third fuel in the mix.
Yep. I'm just not aware of anyone doing a petrol water heater- other than the Eberspacher which requires heat exchangers, etc. (I think you would be hard pressed to heat water electrically without a generator or shore power.)

Even though diesel and petrol are different fuels, you can at least get them at the same place (service station) and without the worry of having the correct adapter to fill a propane bottle in a foreign land.
 

Boston Mangler

OG Portal Member #183
I wonder if there are strong contenders for all electric or gasoline heater/water heaters. It seems if you go for the induction top, eliminating the need for diesel/kerosene would be the obvious next step. It seems odd and additionally complex to have a third fuel in the mix.
I've been researching these (link below) and most likely going to be using one in my new build:

 

Boston Mangler

OG Portal Member #183
Why not just put in a North American RV standard 6 gallon Atwood w/ electric?
Why would I want that? Why use propane when can power everything from solar?

Also, after owning a brand new four wheel camper Hawk for a year and having nothing but issues and headaches with the Dometic/Atwood furnace, I’ve determined their stuff is basically trash with zero customer service.

Yeah, I’m sure people will claim they’ve had _____ For ____ years with no issues and that’s fine, I won’t get into an internet argument.

Dometic / Atwood’s new stuff is garbage and I’ll stand behind that statement all day everyday.

For everyone lucky soul that has their stuff with no issues, 2 are pissed off and trying to fix theirs
 
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pugslyyy

Expedition Vehicle Engineer Guy
The numbers for resistive immersion element water heating by solar just don't make sense for me. How many 6 gallon tanks of hot water do you need per day? By my math you are using (at least) 80Ah for every tank of hot water. FWIW I've never seen a stinger fail on a Dometic/Atwood unit. It is a pretty basic setup with not a lot that can go wrong.
 

Boston Mangler

OG Portal Member #183
The numbers for resistive immersion element water heating by solar just don't make sense for me. How many 6 gallon tanks of hot water do you need per day? By my math you are using (at least) 80Ah for every tank of hot water. FWIW I've never seen a stinger fail on a Dometic/Atwood unit. It is a pretty basic setup with not a lot that can go wrong.
Just because it doesn't make sense for you, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense...

To answer your question... On my last month+ trip i showered every 3 days...

I am planning on a 1050ah battery bank, 80ah for a tank of hot water is of zero issue, neither is the induction cook stove, or the microwave.

You've never seen a Dometic/Atwood unit fail?? Hahahahahahaha, Join the FWC facebook group, or do some googling sir...

A recent post from Stan Kennedy Himself, responding to all the complaints and backlash:

Date: December 16, 2019
To: Four Wheel Camper Owners
Re: Dometic Furnace Information & Update
Thank you for being part of the Four Wheel Camper community! Our Four Wheel Camper company team relishes the relationships we all have together. This makes the recent communication about furnace problems more disturbing to us. In the last few weeks these problems have again been presented to us via social media, phone calls, and the So Cal customer rally. If you are one of the customers experiencing furnace problems, you have our greatest apology.
We want to provide you with what we are doing to improve furnace performance, and what you can do to reduce and best navigate furnace problems. Hopefully this information will also communicate that we have taken this very seriously and have been and are working on possible solutions.
The below information is intended to answer the questions presented to us:
* Why doesn’t FWC select a different furnace?
* What steps is FWC making to improve furnace reliability?
* How do I troubleshoot furnace problems?
* Are replacement parts available from FWC?
* Who do I call if I have a furnace problem?
* Why doesn’t FWC select a different furnace?
Unfortunately there are only a few companies that make and supply furnaces to RV manufacturers in the USA. One from Europe and two or three from the US, are what RV/Camper Manufacturers are typically using in the USA. For the last 10 years or so, Four Wheel Campers has been using a furnace made by the largest domestic supplier, Dometic (Originally Atwood). In the mid-2000’s we were using forced air furnaces from Suburban, the other large domestic supplier. However, the Suburban furnaces had high failure rates with their sail switch, resulting in us transitioning to the Atwood furnaces in 2007. Furnaces from the European supplier, Truma, became an available option here in the USA earlier this year. In recent months we have had several meetings with both Suburban and Truma to assess the trade-offs of transitioning from Dometic furnaces to a different option. However, we want to be careful. Changing suppliers can have its unexpected perils and we want to make sure we don’t trade one problem for another. Lastly, if we change furnace suppliers, we change the furnace dimensions. Changing the furnace dimensions changes the dimensions of everything inside the camper. Doing this would consume much of our engineering time for 2020 and present transition challenges to production and materials management. If we make a change, we want it to be a positive one and to a furnace that has a customer service support network throughout the USA.
What steps is FWC making to improve furnace reliability?
Over the last year we have been in close contact with Dometic’s top managers, even their CEO is aware of the problems. The highest level of management within Dometic has communicated that they are committed to a higher quality standard and are working to make this a reality. Our FWC CEO again connected with the Dometic top management today to keep the conversations going. Dometic’s management and QC personnel have made on-site visits to FWC to better understand our need to improve furnace reliability. We even had some of their top-level management sit in during our January, 2019 annual dealer meeting.
Dometic QC personnel and Senior Technicians have performed audits of how FWC installs furnaces in all of our camper models and floor plans. These audits did not uncover any one significant change to make, though we have made several small changes that might have a positive performance impact. After each inspection, we were assured that our furnace installations met or exceeded their air flow and cabinet spacing requirements. In addition, we have always fully tested all furnaces prior to camper QC (quality control) sign-off. We start with bench testing each furnace in a testing box (before installing it inside the camper), restricting airflow, temporarily worsening the furnace environment to make it more challenging for the furnace to function properly. If the furnace passes that test, we install it in the camper and test it again. And before the camper leaves the factory, we do one final test & our quality control inspections throughout the camper. We have been told our testing has always been more thorough than other RV suppliers.
How do I troubleshoot furnace problems?
1. Make sure your propane tank is full, and the propane tank valve is open.
(you can test this by lighting your cooktop (if equipped) and see if your burners are working and have a healthy flame)
2. Make sure your 12V master switch is “ON” and the camper has battery power.
(you can test this by making sure the camper interior lights work)
3. Make sure your 12 volt deep cycle camper battery(s) are properly charged up and have good voltage. (ex: 12.6v, 12.7v, 12.8v, etc.)
(If in doubt, you can temporarily start your truck or plug your camper into a 120V electrical outlet. This will “boost” up the voltage inside the camper to a higher level for testing purposes).
4. Turn “ON” your furnace thermostat and set the temperature to a few degrees higher than the inside temperature of your camper. If the thermostat is working properly, the furnace fan should start running approx. 10 – 20 seconds after the thermostat has been set.
5. Replace the batteries inside of your thermostat (note: only required if you have a digital thermostat).
6. On newer Dometic furnaces built in 2016, 2017, 2018, or 2019 you can check and clean the sail switch. We have noticed that dust or lint can collect on the sail switch contact and keep it from making the proper connection. It’s pretty easy to get to & clean, and only requires a phillips screw driver for tools. We will post a video on our YouTube channel soon to display how to check & clean the furnace sail switch (Note: Again, only required on the newer 2016-2019 Dometic furnaces).
If your furnace doesn’t start up after taking the steps above, please review our Furnace Troubleshooting Video that is posted on our website or YouTube.
Are replacement parts available from Four Wheel Campers ?
Older Atwood furnaces were very reliable and didn’t seem to need much for replacement parts.
Parts for these furnaces would need to be acquired from a Dometic authorized service center. Remember, Atwood was purchased by Dometic a few years ago. For the 2016-2019 Dometic furnaces our service department has replacement sail switches and circuit boards available.
Step 1: The standard protocol is to contact a Dometic authorized service center (800)-544-4881. However, we are stepping in to also lend assistance as we want you to get the attention you deserve.
Step 2: Please reach out to the dealer where you bought your new camper. Many times they can provide helpful assistance or might have a spare sail switch or extra circuit board on hand they can swap out or mail to you.
Step 3: As mentioned in step #1, the protocol is to contact Dometic's authorized service center and discuss your warranty with them. Please contact Dometic directly, let them know of your furnace problem, ask for your local service repair center, and get an approval number. This can resolve your problem and provides needed feedback to Dometic. Receiving complaints from "many" customers results in priority shifts for companies. Dometic Customer Service: (800)-544-4881



 
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