2020 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 3.0L EcoDiesel

Frank

Explorer
The configurator on jeep.com now includes the diesel as a powertrain option.

Diesel Sport S with soft top, reinforced door carrier, rock sliders, cold weather group, large infotainment with Alpine speakers is $46,500
Diesel Rubicon with same options $52,000.

Am I correct to say that I think they blew this with pricing?
 

MOguy

Explorer
The diesel package adds a 'sport/sahara' width Dana 44 front and rear. They are the same axle design as the Rubicon minus the lockers but about 1" narrower per side.
over 400 ft lbs of torque makes me think of a bigger truck and Dana 60s
 

MOguy

Explorer
Sounds good in the adds and looks cool on the video. Not sure why you need that much torque in a vehicle the size of a wrangler, but I guess if your penis is small you have to compensate one way or another. Gearing is still key.

There are gas engines that can make more than enough power and get the range that diesel can.

All the new emissions with the fuel and the deiseal engines kind of ruin what the initial draw to diesel was all about. All with the torque key things were longevity, simplicity and maintainability.

There may be some were the additional range needed but there are other more cost effective ways to deal with that. The video I watched talked only showed the benefits at highway speeds. If the increase % off-road similar to that of highway driving?
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
The configurator on jeep.com now includes the diesel as a powertrain option.

Diesel Sport S with soft top, reinforced door carrier, rock sliders, cold weather group, large infotainment with Alpine speakers is $46,500
Diesel Rubicon with same options $52,000.

Am I correct to say that I think they blew this with pricing?
Blew the pricing how?
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Sounds good in the adds and looks cool on the video. Not sure why you need that much torque in a vehicle the size of a wrangler, but I guess if your penis is small you have to compensate one way or another. Gearing is still key.

There are gas engines that can make more than enough power and get the range that diesel can.

All the new emissions with the fuel and the deiseal engines kind of ruin what the initial draw to diesel was all about. All with the torque key things were longevity, simplicity and maintainability.
You still get a heavier duty transmission along with the dana 44 axles front and back.

The JLU and JT wrangler are pretty large vehicles these days, they have tried to keep weight in check, but they are still over 4000lbs stock and only get heavier with people, gear, and mods.

If you can't control your right foot enough to have a little bit of extra torque there are other issues.

One issue with the new JL automatics is that they are actually OVER geared in low range in the Rubicon Package. It is very annoying having the transmission hunt shift between 1 to 5 just trying to bump something mild. The only version that might need the 4:1 transfer case now is the manuals.
 

MOguy

Explorer
You still get a heavier duty transmission along with the dana 44 axles front and back.

The JLU and JT wrangler are pretty large vehicles these days, they have tried to keep weight in check, but they are still over 4000lbs stock and only get heavier with people, gear, and mods.

1. If you can't control your right foot enough to have a little bit of extra torque there are other issues.

One issue with the new JL automatics is that they are actually OVER geared in low range in the Rubicon Package. 2. It is very annoying having the transmission hunt shift between 1 to 5 just trying to bump something mild. The only version that might need the 4:1 transfer case now is the manuals.
1. Why build an off road vehicle designed to hit rougher trails that will break? I under stand bigger numbers are cool and everything but it should be able to hand all the power available, of course you can still abuse it.

Maybe the trans can handle it, but a Dana 44 seem big on a TJ and maybe even an JK or JL but these torque numbers are bigger truck numbers where the Dana 44 would be seen as a lighter axle. If you are going to build a monster, BUILD A MONSTER.

2. My kid just got an XJ, I know it is older and things are different, but if you put the trans selector in low gear (1-2 on his XJ) it actual stays in low unless it revs pretty high. It works surprisingly well for bumping and even compression breaking. I still prefer my manual but had I never driven a manual I would have been ok with the auto. Do the newer Wrangler not work like that?
 
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Metcalf

Expedition Leader
1. Why build an off road vehicle designed to hit rougher trails that will break?

2. My kid just got an XJ, I know it is older and things are different, but it you but the trans selector in low gear (1-2 on his XJ) it actual stays in low unless it revs pretty. It work surprisingly well for bumping and even compression breaking. I still prefer my manual but had I never driven a manual I have been ok with the auto. Do the newer Wrangler not work like that?
1. Why is it going to break? A 100ftlbs is going to make the difference to instantly explode the vehicle ever time you touch the accelerator? Just the difference in low range gearing from 2.72 to 4:1 is more than enough to cover the difference in torque between a diesel with the 2.72 case and the v6 or 4cyl with the 4:1 Rubicon transfer case. The only package that I would be even slightly concerned about would be a diesel auto Rubicon. Honestly, people would be idiots to buy that package. ( the diesel gets you pretty much the same thing for way less minus the factory lockers )

2. It is an 8 speed automatic now. You can limit max gear in the M setting which can help with compression braking, but that is not the issue. You need to be able to START in 3,4 or higher in low range, especially with the lower geared rubicon transfer case. The stock control system cannot do that from what I have tested. There may be some electronic programming coming to make that possible, but I haven't seen anyone do it yet on the JL.
 

MOguy

Explorer
1. Why is it going to break? A 100ftlbs is going to make the difference to instantly explode the vehicle ever time you touch the accelerator? Just the difference in low range gearing from 2.72 to 4:1 is more than enough to cover the difference in torque between a diesel with the 2.72 case and the v6 or 4cyl with the 4:1 Rubicon transfer case. The only package that I would be even slightly concerned about would be a diesel auto Rubicon. Honestly, people would be idiots to buy that package. ( the diesel gets you pretty much the same thing for way less minus the factory lockers )

2. It is an 8 speed automatic now. You can limit max gear in the M setting which can help with compression braking, but that is not the issue. You need to be able to START in 3,4 or higher in low range, especially with the lower geared rubicon transfer case. The stock control system cannot do that from what I have tested. There may be some electronic programming coming to make that possible, but I haven't seen anyone do it yet on the JL.

I see what you are saying about the auto now.

As far the torque and breakage, I guess time will tell. If just seems bigger tires and more power lead to breakage. The dana 35 is fine up to a certain point as will be the dana 44. Tires are getting bigger in the newer Jeeps, Jeep decided to go from Dana 35s to 44s for a reason. As things get bigger, heavier and more powerful the Dana 44 will become inadequate just like the Dana 35 did.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
I see what you are saying about the auto now.

As far the torque and breakage, I guess time will tell. If just seems bigger tires and more power lead to breakage. The dana 35 is fine up to a certain point as will be the dana 44. Tires are getting bigger in the newer Jeeps, Jeep decided to go from Dana 35s to 44s for a reason. As things get bigger, heavier and more powerful the Dana 44 will become inadequate just like the Dana 35 did.
The dana 35 was never really fine....but....

Most new JL Wranglers get basically a 'dana30' and 'dana35', now slightly different in the AdvanTEK family. You have to buy the limited slip option to get the upgraded 'Dana44' rear axle. The Rubicon package comes with front and rear 'Dana44' axles ( plus selectable lockers ). The diesel program also gets an upgrade to the 'Dana44' axles included in the price ( but no lockers ).

The new AdvanTEK 'Dana44' is also a much improved design compared to the older stuff....and stronger. It has a new large diameter pinion, one of the carrier bearings is much larger to help deal with deflection. The axle tubes have been changed a bit, The axle shafts are now 32 spline units. The U-joint in the front axle is now 1410(!) sized ( same cross dimension as a Dana60 with slightly smaller caps). These aren't the same old thing. They are working to improve things.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Well equipped will be well north of $60k and I think that's a bit excessive.
Well equipped how? You can get a sport diesel for under 40K that comes with the Diesel engine, heavy duty 8 speed automatic upgrade ( 8HP75 ), and front and rear Dana 44 axles.

If you want fluffy stuff like a fancy stereo or heated seats, I guess the price could creep up on you.

The Sport Diesel package is the deal of the century in my opinion. You really don't need the 4:1 transfer case with the 8spd automatic, especially with the diesel. It's like getting most of the good stuff from the Rubicon package ( plus diesel ) for half price. Adding lockers would be easy in the aftermarket. Heck, I saw an OEM replacement electric locker for the JL series going for $675 new the other day.
 

docwatson

Adventurer
If they didn't change the GVWR you'll have like 600lbs of payload. That would be the worst.

500 miles of range would be pretty awesome though.
 

Frank

Explorer
Well equipped how? You can get a sport diesel for under 40K that comes with the Diesel engine, heavy duty 8 speed automatic upgrade ( 8HP75 ), and front and rear Dana 44 axles.

If you want fluffy stuff like a fancy stereo or heated seats, I guess the price could creep up on you.

The Sport Diesel package is the deal of the century in my opinion. You really don't need the 4:1 transfer case with the 8spd automatic, especially with the diesel. It's like getting most of the good stuff from the Rubicon package ( plus diesel ) for half price. Adding lockers would be easy in the aftermarket. Heck, I saw an OEM replacement electric locker for the JL series going for $675 new the other day.
Clearly we have differences of what well equipped is. I do agree that a base model sport s with zero options except a diesel engine is a great deal. Add in a few creature comforts that come standard with any other 4x4 vehicle on the market today and you clear $45k pretty quick.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Clearly we have differences of what well equipped is. I do agree that a base model sport s with zero options except a diesel engine is a great deal. Add in a few creature comforts that come standard with any other 4x4 vehicle on the market today and you clear $45k pretty quick.
Like what? Heated seats and a subwoofer?

I think a lot of people are just silly without the amount of 'creature comforts' that they 'need' to have on a vehicle these days personally.
I love the idea of a simple JLU without a lot of fluff. I would love to be able to pick and choose a few things, but it seems like you have to always buy a 'package' these days to get one small item....and it often mandates a cascade of other changes.
 
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