2020 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 3.0L EcoDiesel

pittsburgh

tacocat
have they done anything with the 2020s to address the death wobble issues?
@MOguy keep promoting TJs so someone offers me so much money for my LJ that I can't turn it down LOL.

Seriously though times are the jeep crowd are changing people want all of those bells and whistles.

I knew I was outdated when I logged into the JL and JT forums and people were talking more about the stereo, lights, and color matched fenders/tops than they were about axles, lockers, and rock rails.

The only things I don't like about my LJ are the oil leaks and the MPGs. If I could find a way to get close to 20 MPG on 33's I would never look at the JLs but that diesel and the 2.0L tempt me sometimes.

I ll probably hold on to the LJ for the sake of its primitive side, and hope that I can do a street legal diesel swap sometime, but the dad life, work life and jeep life balance might push me towards a modern capable family JLU or JT someday.
 

MOguy

Explorer
@MOguy keep promoting TJs so someone offers me so much money for my LJ that I can't turn it down LOL.

Seriously though times are the jeep crowd are changing people want all of those bells and whistles.

I knew I was outdated when I logged into the JL and JT forums and people were talking more about the stereo, lights, and color matched fenders/tops than they were about axles, lockers, and rock rails.

The only things I don't like about my LJ are the oil leaks and the MPGs. If I could find a way to get close to 20 MPG on 33's I would never look at the JLs but that diesel and the 2.0L tempt me sometimes.

I ll probably hold on to the LJ for the sake of its primitive side, and hope that I can do a street legal diesel swap sometime, but the dad life, work life and jeep life balance might push me towards a modern capable family JLU or JT someday.
I would love an LJ, but I am sticking with my TJ.

The Jeep crowd has changed immensely over the last decade. I understand wanting all the comforts, I have them my "family" vehicle. I think many want their Jeep to be their daily driver and these comforts have become the norm.

I about 16mpg out pf my TJ with 33's and 4.56s. My Jeep isn't a daily driver so the actual MPG isn't as big of a deal but the range advantage is huge.
 

GB_Willys_2014

Well-known member
There have been allot of advancements but that doesn't mean they are more or less "superior" to older systems, just simpler to drive. Out of the box the new wranglers are probably more capable then ever. We will see in 20 years how it is still working. Maybe I am cynical but back in my younger days when my friend and got TJs and YJs and other than oil changes and self inflicted damage or modifications we weren't dealing with the problems that plague many today. My friends for, whatever reason, have always been Jeepers. We had the discussions about the new TJs were real Jeeps and will have problems just like today but the only difference was the TJs didn't have allot of problems. We didn't spend much time chasing down problems like we do today. I friends with older TJs and YJs still aren't spending as much time as those with the newer wranglers.

As far as wobbles or even death wobbles. That will never end with heavier front solid axle vehicles with coil springs, you just have to make more of an effort to keep up with it. This is even an issue with TJs but I think because they are lighter it is less of an issue.
This plague afflicts every single make and model.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
So would a diesel with more power heavier trans slightly bigger axels be better ? Yes for the range only though.by the way the axels on the jlur are larger than the jkur and the diesels even more so.
My point is the jeep jlur is excellent as is no 4:1 Low is not too low the death wobble was a limited thing and not a true death wobble more of a shimmy. Jeep replaced the steering stabilizer on the ones that needed it mine did not IMHO
A few notes in this part.....

The axles are complicated between the JK and JL. The ring and pinion is actually 'smaller' on the JL vs the JK generally, but the pinion stem is larger. I think the JL axle assemblies are better in some ways, but then they had to go and stick the CAD system back in the front end. What they should have done was watch the trend on the JK that the front axles are bending. The J8 military testing proved this out. They should have greatly increased the diameter of the front axle tubes, kept wall thickness conservative for weight, beefed up the inner knuckles, and stayed away from the CAD system. If the axles housing would have had say a 3.25" tube with 1/4" wall made of high strength material people would have been ecstatic.

The axles in the JLUR gas and JL diesels ( and JT trucks ) are all basically the same. The only difference is some slight width changes and if they have a selectable locker.

I'm glad your happy with the 4:1 low, but it really really isn't needed with the 8spd auto. If you haven't driven a sport/Sahara with the 2.72 low and 8spd it is a very interesting comparison. Most people love the 4:1 because it sounds better and comes with the Rubicon......
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
And it will continue to be an issue for all front solid axle vehicles that have coil spring unless they come up with something better that the current track bar style set up.
It is a nickle and dime accounting issue. A more rigid track bar and bushing setup helps a ton. It can cause some NVH issues so the OEMs have to balance that out with failure rate.
 

MOguy

Explorer
It is a nickle and dime accounting issue. A more rigid track bar and bushing setup helps a ton. It can cause some NVH issues so the OEMs have to balance that out with failure rate.
Fixing it is a about money.

Jeep wanted the Wrangler to be more appealing to more people.

Coil springs make for a nicer ride. Had they stuck with leaf springs there would not be a death wobble issue but had they kept with leaf spring the ride would be as nice. Just like is the had not gone with all the electronic fancy crap they wouldn't appeal to as many people.

The manufacturers are going after sale to make more money as opposed to a more solid simpler Dependable purpose driven vehicle.

I wonder if hiem joints would help, of course the ride would suffer and you don't want that when you pay 50k for a vehicle.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Fixing it is a about money.

Jeep wanted the Wrangler to be more appealing to more people.

Coil springs make for a nicer ride. Had they stuck with leaf springs there would not be a death wobble issue but had they kept with leaf spring the ride would be as nice. Just like is the had not gone with all the electronic fancy crap they wouldn't appeal to as many people.

The manufacturers are going after sale to make more money as opposed to a more solid simpler Dependable purpose driven vehicle.

I wonder if hiem joints would help, of course the ride would suffer and you don't want that when you pay 50k for a vehicle.
All coil sprung vehicles don't have death wobble.

Businesses are about making money....of course they are going to make them appeal to more people.

You can still get a fairly basic Jeep....just not one with leaf springs and a carb.
 

MOguy

Explorer
All coil sprung vehicles don't have death wobble.

Businesses are about making money....of course they are going to make them appeal to more people.

You can still get a fairly basic Jeep....just not one with leaf springs and a carb.
which ones don't have death woobles or shimmies?

I'm not saying what they're doing is wrong, they are doing exactly the right thing. They're selling more Wranglers than ever. I'm just saying my opinion.
 
Last edited:

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
which ones don't have death woobles or shimmies?

I'm not saying what they're doing is wrong, they are doing exactly the right thing. They're selling more Wranglers than ever. I'm just saying my opinion.
The majority of them. There wouldn't be tens of millions of vehicles on the road with beam axles and coil springs if they all had 'death wobble'. The 80 series Toyota chassis custom FJ45 truck I just got done building doesn't have it. Can a suspension develop death wobble if it is worn out and abused, yes. Can an OEM not get it 100% right on the introduction of a new vehicle, yes.
 

MOguy

Explorer
The majority of them. There wouldn't be tens of millions of vehicles on the road with beam axles and coil springs if they all had 'death wobble'. The 80 series Toyota chassis custom FJ45 truck I just got done building doesn't have it. Can a suspension develop death wobble if it is worn out and abused, yes. Can an OEM not get it 100% right on the introduction of a new vehicle, yes.
When I googled fj 45 death wobble issues there are allot of people talking about their death wobble issues.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
When I googled fj 45 death wobble issues there are allot of people talking about their death wobble issues.
Oh yeah......because original FJ45s have leaf springs and solid axles. I thought death wobble was a coil spring thing?

Again. Can a front suspension develop 'death wobble', yes. It usually comes from lack of maintenance and/or abuse. It isn't exclusive to coil springs or even beam axles, even motorcyles can have it. Some suspensions are more or less susceptible than others based on a ton of different factors.
 

MOguy

Explorer
Coil sprung solid axles only have 2 places to keep the axle from going right to left,. Leaf sprung will have 6. Axles with coil springs well always be more likely to have shimmies and even death wobble but any solid vehicle could too.
 

Metcalf

Expedition Leader
Coil sprung solid axles only have 2 places to keep the axle from going right to left,. Leaf sprung will have 6. Axles with coil springs well always be more likely to have shimmies and even death wobble but any solid vehicle could too.
Death wobble doesn't come exclusively from lack of lateral axle control. It is a TIRE oscillation at the root. It can come from tire imbalance, slop in the steering system, lack of lateral axle control, sloppy ball joints or kingpins, lack of caster, too much caster, bent wheels, bad steering alignment, etc, etc.
 

MOguy

Explorer
Oh yeah......because original FJ45s have leaf springs and solid axles. I thought death wobble was a coil spring thing?

Again. Can a front suspension develop 'death wobble', yes. It usually comes from lack of maintenance and/or abuse. It isn't exclusive to coil springs or even beam axles, even motorcyles can have it. Some suspensions are more or less susceptible than others based on a ton of different factors.

Not always maintenance issues. Brand no truck and Jeeps are experiencing it.
 
Top