Another opinion

Fergie

Expedition Leader
riverfever said:
Ok guys here's where I'm at now after having someone with lots more experience look at it with me today:

I have multiple issues going on. The tie rod at the frame end of the track bar is trashed. The tie rod itself at the passengers knuckle is also trashed. With 125,000 miles on the OE steering components, I'm sure they're due for replacement. Another major problem is with the Skyjacker LCA's. The bushings are trashed. I guess all this stuff combined is really wreaking havoc on the front end. So...I'm going to order either the RE HD trackbar or Kevins (not sure which yet). I'll ditch the relocation bracket and that will get the angles closer to where they need to be. I'll do new bushings in the LCA's too. I think I'm going to do a ZJ V8 steering conversion instead of messing with replacing the worn stuff with XJ parts. To top it off...I'll do new 32x11.50 BFG AT's on Rockcrawler wheels after the steering is sourced out.

What do you guys think? I'm kinda bummed about all the money it's gonna cost me but this is all stuff that's gonna happen eventually and, knock on wood, I've been really lucky with my XJ. Thanks for all your help. If you have any thoughts about my plans, I'd love to hear them.

-Chris

Drop the dime for Kevin's stuff, and never worry about it again. The Zj V8 components can be had for around $80 if you shop right.

For the CAs, get some new bushings(not very expensive), but also check you UCA bushings on the axle end, the frame end too. The axle ones a re a pain, but often overlooked, and were the source of my DW.
 

Bongo Boy

Observer
The symptom mentioned doesn't sound like bump steer and wouldn't have been experienced anyway under the conditions mentioned, I don't think. Am I wrong? I understand those angles could be improved and that it's possible bump steer is just waiting to happen when that front end traversal increases off-road. I'm just suggesting that this might fix a different problem than the one mentioned.

My limited experience is with my 4"+ lift, where the rig wouldn't center up at all after a steering input. Move the wheel right or left and let go, the rig would stay on that new course. I'm thinking you might feel this symptom as one of needing more correction at the wheel. I looked at caster and it was definitely at the low end of the recommended range--and that's for a stock vehicle.

Anyway, did the alignment guys give you a printout that includes before and after caster? I added in enough to take me to the maximum (or even a degree over) recommended in the service manual. This eliminated all problems up front (along with toe-in correction, of course).

As far as 'heavy duty' stuff, my opinion is that the geometry has to be corrected in any case--and you can do that with the gear you have. All heavy duty does is help ensure that the geometry to select stays that way--it could just as well be wrong or right with light weight or heavy duty.

I'm definitely not an expert, so if I'm missing something please let me know. It's just that the symptom reported seems like more of a 'steady state' problem, whereas the tb/dl angle issue is a dynamic one--to me. I think I also understand that, just because something "worked for me" doesn't make it right, so I'm all ears.
 
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riverfever

Adventurer
LCA's have new bushings installed and that made a big difference. I'm ordering Kevins track bar next. The tires and ZJ stuff will come after that.
 

Bongo Boy

Observer
Well that's nice. Hopefully 'Kevins track bar' will straighten out all your issues. I'm totally baffled about why anyone thinks 'track bar' was a problem in this case. Can someone give me a clue?

Chrome windshield hinges might have fixed the problem, too. Any thoughts as to why they'd do less than "Kevin's trackbar"? ****** is 'Kevin' anyway?
 

\\'anderer

Adventurer
2 reasons I thought it was a trackbar bracket issue

1. Seat of the pants experience with the trackbar brackets causing a wierd feeling going down the road. I cant explain why, but changing the parts provided a better feeling steering on the road.

2. Chrome windshield hinges lower the co-efficient of drag therby causing an imbalance of the antenna wind drag ,causing the jeep to pull to the right.:confused:
 

OverlandZJ

Expedition Leader
Bongo Boy said:
Well that's nice. Hopefully 'Kevins track bar' will straighten out all your issues. I'm totally baffled about why anyone thinks 'track bar' was a problem in this case. Can someone give me a clue?

Chrome windshield hinges might have fixed the problem, too. Any thoughts as to why they'd do less than "Kevin's trackbar"? ****** is 'Kevin' anyway?


Riverfever raising the axle end of the trackbar (w/ Kevins/RE etc) to the stock location it will bring the angle closer to paralell with the draglink. This should improve his handling characteristics...no? He could go further and lower the body end of the trackbar and install a dropped pitman to bring these angles closer to horizontal which as i understand also improves handling.

With the dropped pitman (as mentioned earlier) you run a risk of tearing the steering box from the unibody in tougher terrain, a plate such as the C-Rok setup would strengthen and make this less likely.

The chrome remark was a bit "pirateish"... we try to be a bit more friendly here.
 

Bob_Sheaves

Observer
Bongo Boy said:
Well that's nice. Hopefully 'Kevins track bar' will straighten out all your issues. I'm totally baffled about why anyone thinks 'track bar' was a problem in this case. Can someone give me a clue?

Chrome windshield hinges might have fixed the problem, too. Any thoughts as to why they'd do less than "Kevin's trackbar"? ****** is 'Kevin' anyway?
Reread my comments on the geometry. I am a "little" familiar with the problems of the XK/MJ/ZJ/BR suspension, as I was responsible for all 4x4's on the BR program at JTE. If you do not understand, please ask about whatever part of the explanation you fail to understand. I do not read minds.... :)

Best regards,

Bob Sheaves
CEO
catNET Incorporated
http://www.catnetsolutions.com
 

Bob_Sheaves

Observer
John B said:
Riverfever raising the axle end of the trackbar (w/ Kevins/RE etc) to the stock location it will bring the angle closer to paralell with the draglink. This should improve his handling characteristics...no? He could go further and lower the body end of the trackbar and install a dropped pitman to bring these angles closer to horizontal which as i understand also improves handling.

With the dropped pitman (as mentioned earlier) you run a risk of tearing the steering box from the unibody in tougher terrain, a plate such as the C-Rok setup would strengthen and make this less likely.

The chrome remark was a bit "pirateish"... we try to be a bit more friendly here.
Absolutely correct on all counts...glad to see you understood the explanation.

Best regards,

Bob Sheaves
CEO
catNET Incorporated
http://www.catnetsolutions.com
 

Bob_Sheaves

Observer
\\'anderer said:
2 reasons I thought it was a trackbar bracket issue

1. Seat of the pants experience with the trackbar brackets causing a wierd feeling going down the road. I cant explain why, but changing the parts provided a better feeling steering on the road.

2. Chrome windshield hinges lower the co-efficient of drag therby causing an imbalance of the antenna wind drag ,causing the jeep to pull to the right.:confused:
You are correct, the angles are the root cause of all the other issues.

...although, to be fair, I did forget to ask about the chrome...it usually adds speed to the vehicle. :)

Best regards,

Bob Sheaves
CEO
catNET Incorporated
http://www.catnetsolutions.com
 

riverfever

Adventurer
Been busy keeping kids in line with the school year winding down so I haven't been here in a bit. I did go on a longer drive over the weekend in search of water that wasn't blown out. I was amazed at how much better the Jeep handled. The new bushings did a lot. Also found a bum u joint in the front driveshaft and that made a big difference too.

I know I have the witts to learn more about this stuff but I can't stop fishing long enough. Thanks again for the help. The one cool thing about doing these repairs in steps is that I can see/feel the improvements each one makes. Anxious to see what the new TB and steering stuff does. The tires are simply embarassing and I actually had all chrome stuff before and painted them black and noticed no decrease in performance Bongo.

Did I mention I only have 5.5 days left until schools out? :wings:
 

Bongo Boy

Observer
Bob_Sheaves said:
please ask about whatever part of the explanation you fail to understand. I do not read minds.... :)
Oh, wow. THAT was some poor wording on my part, to say the least. First, I owe a big apology for the smart-ass tone. Can't come up with a good excuse--thankfully.

I'm not getting the connection btw the symptoms and the track bar function, but let me read again more carefully.

Again, my sincerest apology to Bob and everyone on this forum for my Childish Moment.
 
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XXXpedition

Explorer
check the track bar relocation bracket. maybe it'sa bit loose.
or even the hole for the bolt is not 100% right. if it's a hair too big, it will handle like you mentioned. mine did the same thing and it was always that problem.
 

Bob_Sheaves

Observer
Bongo Boy said:
Oh, wow. THAT was some poor wording on my part, to say the least. First, I owe a big apology for the smart-ass tone. Can't come up with a good excuse--thankfully.

I'm not getting the connection btw the symptoms and the track bar function, but let me read again more carefully.

Again, my sincerest apology to Bob and everyone on this forum for my Childish Moment.
No offence taken. We ALL have bad days, some more than others.... :)

Seriously though, my point still stands-if I am not clear in my explanations, PLEASE ask. I will clear up the confusion as best I can.

Best regards,

Bob Sheaves
CEO
catNET Incorporated
http://www.catnetsolutions.com/
 

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