Anti-condensation mat?

#47
Yeah you quoted me so I guess LoL
I’m just chatting about different ideas, I’ve read that the mats are hit and miss with results and there’s issues closing the RTT due to the thickness and they move around. So I was just thinking of other ideas.

Glad your happy with your set up.
yes I quoted you what you said about how condensation & agree'd.

I have none of the issues of moisture, closing or the mat hanging up anywhere in my tent. Plus I use Exped Duo XL XW 10 queen size self inflatable mattress which gives me a whole lot more room packing up & closing the tent. I'm glad to hear your happy with your solution.
 
#48
Here's some examples of common DIY attempts at AC mats that are not effective.
View attachment 471971 View attachment 471972 View attachment 471973 View attachment 471974

None of these will give any real airflow to create a moisture barrier between the floor and mattress and as a result won't really reduce the condensation and keep the moisture out of the mattress which is what will turn into mold and mildew and stink.
Even the perforated mat won't be effective. While it looks like it would have airflow through the holes, when it is on the floor of a tent it is creating a seal around every one of those holes so no air can get through all of those holes.

In contrast as you look at the Tepui mats, you can see that the overlapping weave of the mat allows for a significant amount of airflow. It's also important to note that a mat that is somewhat stiff is also key. Anyone that has seen the Tepui mats first hand will know that they are pretty rigid and will not collapse under the weight of tent occupants. As a result the airflow isn't compromised at all from the weight of people. DIY solutions that use a foam type mat or something that can collapse or compress with the weight of occupants will not be as effective.
Here's the Tepui mat again for comparison.
View attachment 471977

I agree 101% on what is developed, tested & works by overlanding community. I haven't had any issues of sweating or condensation between my floor or mattress. These condensation mats do work. My CVT condensation mat doesn't hang up in my tent closing, nor I have problems closing & securing my RTT & installing the cover fitting over all of it. I use Exped Duo 10 Queen Size Self Inflating Mattress w\ queen size sheets, blanket\blankets for what ever time of the year.
 
#49
I picked up a Tepui anti-condensation mat in the last sale and just returned from a 4 day trip in Yellowstone. It didn't help a bit. Condensation under the mattress every night.

Condensation can be dealt with two ways, ventilation and insulation. I can prevent condensation on the walls of the tent by ventilation, but I can not prevent condensation under the mattress by ventilation. To think that a anti condensation mat allows "air flow" under a mattress is crazy, how is the flow of air going to get to the mat? The mat is under the mattress, which is wall to wall on most tents and surrounded on the sides by the walls of the tent, which prevent air flow from the sides, so no air can flow under the mat.

It lifts the mattress to try and create a layer of air as insulation between the hot mattress and the cold floor. For some people this layer of insulative air is enough, for others it is not.
 

80t0ylc

Hill & Gully Rider
#50
I picked up a Tepui anti-condensation mat in the last sale and just returned from a 4 day trip in Yellowstone. It didn't help a bit. Condensation under the mattress every night.

Condensation can be dealt with two ways, ventilation and insulation. I can prevent condensation on the walls of the tent by ventilation, but I can not prevent condensation under the mattress by ventilation. To think that a anti condensation mat allows "air flow" under a mattress is crazy, how is the flow of air going to get to the mat? The mat is under the mattress, which is wall to wall on most tents and surrounded on the sides by the walls of the tent, which prevent air flow from the sides, so no air can flow under the mat.

It lifts the mattress to try and create a layer of air as insulation between the hot mattress and the cold floor. For some people this layer of insulative air is enough, for others it is not.
Do you have an aluminum floor in your RTT? If so, this may be why you're seeing more condensation under your mattress. My hard shell CVT has a fiberglass floor, plus I usually sleep in a sleeping bag which keeps heat next to me and doesn't transfer much to the floor of the tent. I ventilate with a partially open window & I rarely have much condensation in my tent - walls or floor. It has to be way below freezing for me to see condensation in the tent. This is from a web site:

WHY WOULD THERE BE MOISTURE IN THE TENT?
Because the tent holds its temperature inside so well and the floors are made of aluminum, body heat transfers through the floor causing varying temperatures between the outside and inside surfaces. When this temperature change occurs, moisture can also occur under the mattress on the warmest part of the floor. To eliminate this, add our 1/4″ anti-condensation mat which provides a layer between your body and the aluminum floor to reduce the temperature change which leads to moisture. (Think of drinking ice water from an aluminum cup).


Seems like the more insulation you can provide from the floor of your tent, the less moisture/condensation you'll experience under the mattress. Maybe a thicker mattress or an additional mattress pad. However, extremely low temps where you might have a heater of some kind in the tent, will give different results, both on the walls and floor.
 
#51
I picked up a Tepui anti-condensation mat in the last sale and just returned from a 4 day trip in Yellowstone. It didn't help a bit. Condensation under the mattress every night.

Condensation can be dealt with two ways, ventilation and insulation. I can prevent condensation on the walls of the tent by ventilation, but I can not prevent condensation under the mattress by ventilation. To think that a anti condensation mat allows "air flow" under a mattress is crazy, how is the flow of air going to get to the mat? The mat is under the mattress, which is wall to wall on most tents and surrounded on the sides by the walls of the tent, which prevent air flow from the sides, so no air can flow under the mat.

It lifts the mattress to try and create a layer of air as insulation between the hot mattress and the cold floor. For some people this layer of insulative air is enough, for others it is not.
Moisture getting in the mattress or just condensation on the floor? The mats don’t eliminate the moisture but they are designed to keep it out of the mattress. Still normal to have moisture inside the tent and on the floor. That’s just what happens when you have warmer temperatures inside the tent than outside.
 

80t0ylc

Hill & Gully Rider
#52
............ The mats don’t eliminate the moisture but they are designed to keep it out of the mattress. Still normal to have moisture inside the tent and on the floor. That’s just what happens when you have warmer temperatures inside the tent than outside.
.......Condensation can be dealt with two ways, ventilation and insulation. I can prevent condensation on the walls of the tent by ventilation, but I can not prevent condensation under the mattress by ventilation. To think that a anti condensation mat allows "air flow" under a mattress is crazy, how is the flow of air going to get to the mat? The mat is under the mattress, which is wall to wall on most tents and surrounded on the sides by the walls of the tent, which prevent air flow from the sides, so no air can flow under the mat.

It lifts the mattress to try and create a layer of air as insulation between the hot mattress and the cold floor. For some people this layer of insulative air is enough, for others it is not.
You know, I've been kicking this around and am realizing that if you could insulate the mattress from the floor in such a way to prevent it warming the floor, that might work to at least reduce the condensation, if not eliminate it. It's the difference in temperature that causes the condensation to form on the inside of the floor. And like the difference between an insulated cup compared to a glass, plastic or metal beverage container. The insulated container keeps condensation from forming on the outide.

What if, in addition to adding a 1/4" of "insulation" under the mattress with the mat, you reflect that heat back and keep it away from the floor? How about using a "space blanket" under the mattress to keep the heat away from the floor? You know, one of those thin foil-like fold up emergency blankets we keep in our survival kits that NASA developed years ago. The mat would keep the floor from transferring the cold to the space blanket, since it's under the weight of the mattress & occupants. The tent walls are not near the problem to ventilate as under the mattress, so keeping heat away from them is not necessary. It would not be difficult to try and see if it makes a difference. I don't have the condensation problem, so it would have to be a tent owner with a mat that is experiencing the condensation problem. It would be an easy fix if it works.
 

80t0ylc

Hill & Gully Rider
#55
Please tell us what in a RTT acts as the "Vapor Barrier"? I don't think this is a good model of the mattress & tent floor situation. There's always some moisture in the air. It condenses on a cold surface. The trick IMHO, is to only let the moisture laden air contact a cold surface where there is air flow, such as the tent walls.

ya gotta get some air moving in there to dissipate the moisture. it's not going to be eliminated otherwise.
Correct. Airflow is key.
No doubt. But HOW under a mattress do you get AIRFLOW? The mat does not give you airflow, it gives you insulation or it basically gives another 1/4" between mattress and floor of RTT.

I think I agree with this statement more than what you're trying to push:
........ To think that a anti condensation mat allows "air flow" under a mattress is crazy, how is the flow of air going to get to the mat? The mat is under the mattress, which is wall to wall on most tents and surrounded on the sides by the walls of the tent, which prevent air flow from the sides, so no air can flow under the mat.

It lifts the mattress to try and create a layer of air as insulation between the hot mattress and the cold floor. For some people this layer of insulative air is enough, for others it is not.
 
#56
Please tell us what in a RTT acts as the "Vapor Barrier"? I don't think this is a good model of the mattress & tent floor situation. There's always some moisture in the air. It condenses on a cold surface. The trick IMHO, is to only let the moisture laden air contact a cold surface where there is air flow, such as the tent walls.



No doubt. But HOW under a mattress do you get AIRFLOW? The mat does not give you airflow, it gives you insulation or it basically gives another 1/4" between mattress and floor of RTT.

I think I agree with this statement more than what you're trying to push:
You are partially correct that the mats will give some insulation because of the air within the mat can get heated by the bodies inside the tent (similar to water in a wetsuit), but again, airflow (or air in the mat) is key to a proper mat. Air can still get under the mattress with a Tepui mat. It's not like you need wind blowing through it, just air to dry out the moisture. The breathable tent canopy will let air through. Also, you'll probably notice that the center seam of the tent down by the hinge there is a separation in the canopy (most have a flap that velcros over opening) allows airflow into the tent. Those that have seen the Tepui mats will see how they are designed for airflow with the mesh construction. Refer back to my earlier photos of the Tepui mats.
Might not believe what I'm describing but that's how it works. Tepui did actually research and test the design during development of their Ruggedized tents a few years ago when the mats were introduced.
 

80t0ylc

Hill & Gully Rider
#57
You are partially correct that the mats will give some insulation because of the air within the mat can get heated by the bodies inside the tent (similar to water in a wetsuit), but again, airflow (or air in the mat) is key to a proper mat. Air can still get under the mattress with a Tepui mat. It's not like you need wind blowing through it, just air to dry out the moisture. The breathable tent canopy will let air through. Also, you'll probably notice that the center seam of the tent down by the hinge there is a separation in the canopy (most have a flap that velcros over opening) allows airflow into the tent. Those that have seen the Tepui mats will see how they are designed for airflow with the mesh construction. Refer back to my earlier photos of the Tepui mats.
Might not believe what I'm describing but that's how it works. Tepui did actually research and test the design during development of their Ruggedized tents a few years ago when the mats were introduced.
Well then it's "dead air space insulation", NOT air flow. It is nothing new. This form of insulation, or understanding it's concept, has been around for years. If you do some research into it, adding a foil layer, like I had previously suggested, would not only increase the insulation 'R' value, but also make the anti - condensation mat more effective.
 
#58
Well then it's "dead air space insulation", NOT air flow. It is nothing new. This form of insulation, or understanding it's concept, has been around for years. If you do some research into it, adding a foil layer, like I had previously suggested, would not only increase the insulation 'R' value, but also make the anti - condensation mat more effective.
Who said it was something new? Just how the mats work. Pretty sure I never questioned your "space blanket" idea. If you want to try it, report back on how it works.
 

80t0ylc

Hill & Gully Rider
#59
Who said it was something new? Just how the mats work. Pretty sure I never questioned your "space blanket" idea. If you want to try it, report back on how it works.
I don't have the condensation problem. As before stated, my RTT is a fiberglass hard shell, not that I'm exempt from it, but I think it's easier and more effective to manage. I guess I would say, as easy as it is to try and impliment, hopefully a tent owner that has the condensation problem will try it. I would recommend though, that both the mat and space blanket be used in an attempt. Not just the space blanket.
 
#60
I'm working on a fiberglass boat that will be heading to Alaska. Because the water is so cold, condensation is a concern. Kicking ideas around with a buddy up there and he recommended that I line the hull with sheet cork which I thought is a brilliant idea. Cork is natural and anti-fungal as well as it breathes to some extent. It conforms to slight curves, will not compress and is relatively cheap.

I'm not familiar with the tents with alloy bases but this might be a possible solution if an anti-condensation mat doesn't doesn't work well,
 
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