Best full-size 4 season composite trailer?

[billiebob]

I've often wondered why well built fiberglass trailers like Bigfoot and Oliver don't put more capable independent suspensions on their trailers. It's probably because the aluminum frames aren't designed for it.

yep, but aluminium or steel makes no difference, all the independent suspensions need a bit more reinforcing than a solid axle leaf sprung suspension.... which adds weight and reduces payload capacity.

The "more capable" comment is subjective. Solid axles and leaf springs are well proven thru every war. Independent reduces unsprung weight... Definitely an advantage for handling in a sports car or ride in a luxury car but in a trailer..... not as important. It is definitely hard to measure any advantage in an expo trailer given the extra cost. .

 

[Treefarmer]

yep, but aluminium or steel makes no difference, all the independent suspensions need a bit more reinforcing than a solid axle leaf sprung suspension.... which adds weight and reduces payload capacity.

The "more capable" comment is subjective. Solid axles and leaf springs are well proven thru every war. Independent reduces unsprung weight... Definitely an advantage for handling in a sports car or ride in a luxury car but in a trailer..... not as important. It is definitely hard to measure any advantage in an expo trailer given the extra cost. .

For us, more capable just means:
Ability to raise, lower, and level the trailer.
Ability to crawl through deeper arroyos without dragging or bending the frame.
Ability to go through washboard and other bumpy roads (including "paved") without rattling the trailer apart inside and outside.
Maybe there are solid axles and leaf springs that can do all that at rock bottom prices in comparison to the independent suspensions? I don't know.

 

[Buddha.]

I thought you folks might like to see what I spotted on the new R pods.

Somewhat interesting observation.
I did a 192 standard non “beast mode” suspension today. It had ~1100lbs payload vs 1500 for the beat mode.

 

[calicamper]

The rpods run Torsion axles and its pretty common to come across owners who replaced the originals with new torsion axles with higher load ratings. I have even come across owners who ditched the torsion axles after way to many failures and had a shop put leaf axle setup on their trailer.


I think a big part of what’s driving this new mor complex suspension is partially the Chinese trash Lippert has been importing and putting on all the RVs. I have yet to meet one owner that hasn’t had to replace a junked torsion axle in recent yrs

 

[TGK]

This discussion of torsion axles raises the question of whether it is prudent to put new torsion axles on an older trailer that exceed the GVW rating of the trailer. Let's say the trailer is rated at 5,200lbs max and it has two Dexter torsion axles. If one never intends to exceed the rated weight of the trailer, does it make sense to install 2 new axles that have a much higher load rating combined than the trailer's gross weight rating? I always had the impression the higher rated axles are "stiffer" than lower rated ones and that they can be "overkill" and actually cause more damage to a trailer vs ones that are more closely matched to the gross weight capacity of the trailer. Does that concept apply to torsion axles?

 

[calicamper]

This discussion of torsion axles raises the question of whether it is prudent to put new torsion axles on an older trailer that exceed the GVW rating of the trailer. Let's say the trailer is rated at 5,200lbs max and it has two Dexter torsion axles. If one never intends to exceed the rated weight of the trailer, does it make sense to install 2 new axles that have a much higher load rating combined than the trailer's gross weight rating? I always had the impression the higher rated axles are "stiffer" than lower rated ones and that they can be "overkill" and actually cause more damage to a trailer vs ones that are more closely matched to the gross weight capacity of the trailer. Does that concept apply to torsion axles?

Yes Thats definitely something to consider. Talking to some of the Rpod owners in some cases they found the axle it came with was under specced for the trailer rating which in those cases they we’re pretty sure that sped up the failure, and going to a beefier axle vs their packed weight probably isn’t a huge difference in ride quality. However!!! Unpacked ie empty weight yeah ride quality is probably worse by a decent amount

 

[calicamper]

Watching Ember closely

So far 2021 trailers used wrong floor bonding glue for the composite deck which cause the flooring to turn ugly, big $ fix. All the slides were the cheap failure prone geared system which has been an epic fail. They also could not source the double pane euro windows for a period so many of the trailers have cheap traditional Indiana windows.

Current rumor is that at some point recently they ditched the lousy geared slide mechanism for a cable system thats “better”

Also at some point victron stuff started getting installed also.

Basically there is a huge range of random Ember trailers out there being priced crazy high but are packing the same garbage equipment found on a Wolf Pup sold for $19,000.

Lots of people are convinced Ember is different or Trying to be different…

I do think Ember has an interesting chance of being a really good option for a better materials used in assembly RV… But they have a long way to go still.

They need to quit with the slides on all models under 20ft being promoted as off grid campers.. They need to bring their dealer listed prices back to reality. When you have a dealer with a new 2022 190mbd listing 36k a 191mbd is not a $60,000 trailer… Marking up your trailers $30,000 over a price thats still profitable without offering ultra super premium stuff just tells buyers your business is full of shhh—- ….

I think the 17mbh is better than the Taxa Mantis in every way value, build quality, bunk space, bathroom, etc. Only Mantis advantage is garage fit which I bet very few Mantis owners actually do in real practice, it won’t fit under my garage header.

The Ember 190mbh is cool but should be the more versatile msl configuration and it would be a win win. Not going to lie, the 190-191 are big! Your not dragging these down anything beyond a wide graded road.

 

[Alloy]

For us, more capable just means:
Ability to raise, lower, and level the trailer.
Ability to crawl through deeper arroyos without dragging or bending the frame.
Ability to go through washboard and other bumpy roads (including "paved") without rattling the trailer apart inside and outside.

No matter how much a trailer will lift skid plates are a must. You'll always want to go a litter further. I've dragged my trailer (16" deep frame) across washouts with the wheels off the ground. The bottom doesn't have a bunch of cross members that catch snow/mud/sand either.

Leveling the trailer with air is marketing BS. Air systems leak. At 1:00am, 2:00am, 3:00am you'll be woken up when the trailer shifts. As this happens the next thing to worry about is bending the jacks due the ebrake or blocks holding the tires in place and the arc (swing arm) of the suspension travel.

Air ride is better doesn't matter if it is solid axle or IS.

 

[calicamper]

No matter how much a trailer will lift skid plates are a must. You'll always want to go a litter further. I've dragged my trailer (16" deep frame) across washouts with the wheels off the ground. The bottom doesn't have a bunch of cross members that catch snow/mud/sand either.

Leveling the trailer with air is marketing BS. Air systems leak. At 1:00am, 2:00am, 3:00am you'll be woken up when the trailer shifts. As this happens the next thing to worry about is bending the jacks due the ebrake or blocks holding the tires in place and the arc (swing arm) of the suspension travel.

Air ride is better doesn't matter if it is solid axle or IS.

I spent 23hrs traveling in a Tahoe with a leaky air suspension. By the time we got home I vowed never ever to have air suspension. Id rather find a specialty shop and pay for custom springs or leafs than suffer the constant drone of the air compressor.

 

[Alloy]

I spent 23hrs traveling in a Tahoe with a leaky air suspension. By the time we got home I vowed never ever to have air suspension. Id rather find a specialty shop and pay for custom springs or leafs than suffer the constant drone of the air compressor.

If the system is leaking that bad it sounds like the compressor is an excuse for maintenance.

If I could I wouldn't have anything but air or hydraulics (Liquid Spring). Between the truck and trailer I use 8 air bags. They hold air between 12 hours and 6 days depending on weight, number of fitting and the type of fittings I (re)used.

 

[calicamper]

If the system is leaking that bad it sounds like the compressor is an excuse for maintenance.

If I could I wouldn't have anything but air or hydraulics (Liquid Spring). Between the truck and trailer I use 8 air bags. They hold air between 12 hours and 6 days depending on weight, number of fitting and the type of fittings I (re)used.

Cracked metal fitting on an air hose. System was 2 months old. Had to drive it vs fix because we couldn’t find the right fitting to swap in. Same trip we experienced the well known GM fuel pump failure just as we were dropping into Elko NV. Hey truck is pretty quiet? Yup.. 15 seconds later oh crap its dead.. coasted about a mile before we came yo a stop on the shoulder of the highway 5 miles short of town. 2hrs laying under the truck in the Napa part’s parking lot and we were on our way again. Napa guy said yup I have those!! Sell 3-6 of em a week. I asked if he had other fuel pumps for other brands? Nope! Don’t sell any of those

 

[DFNDER]

Have had air suspension in three vehicles over twelve years of driving, never had a leak or compressor fail. Not worried anbout air bags on a trailer. Auto leveling rear suspension while towing is a dream, as is the improved ride comfort, and I’m very much looking forward to using the gimmick on our trailer to self level at campsites and throw away the leveling blocks.

 

[Raspy]

This discussion of torsion axles raises the question of whether it is prudent to put new torsion axles on an older trailer that exceed the GVW rating of the trailer. Let's say the trailer is rated at 5,200lbs max and it has two Dexter torsion axles. If one never intends to exceed the rated weight of the trailer, does it make sense to install 2 new axles that have a much higher load rating combined than the trailer's gross weight rating? I always had the impression the higher rated axles are "stiffer" than lower rated ones and that they can be "overkill" and actually cause more damage to a trailer vs ones that are more closely matched to the gross weight capacity of the trailer. Does that concept apply to torsion axles?

This is a good question. An example is the Xplore X22 with torsion suspension. The trailer weighs just about 5,300 lbs empty, but the tandem axles are rated for 5,000 lbs each. It is stiff riding. On the highway, that is a desirable trait as it doesn't lean on turns and is quite stable. But off road, it can be too rough. Answer: Air down. When aired down, you actually get several more inches of travel with a softer suspension. It is designed that way and works well. With the hydraulic adjustable torsion suspension system, you can adjust ride height, but not stiffness, or the ratio of compression to top-out travel. This means you could add ride height and still be near the suspension stops. The ride height is independend of the suspension travel.
The Cruisemaster swingarm system on the X195 and Roamer 1 have ride height adjustment with air. They seem to ride pretty well with a reasonable compromise on stiffness. You can't adjust the stiffness, but you can add more air to carry the load at a good point in the suspension travel, so you get proper suspension at various overall weights. They also seem to have good shocks with lots of damping. And Cruisemaster offers a sway bar option that should help with cornering, if needed.
Everyone should remember that torsion is independent, and swing arm is independent, but they are not the same. The torsion gets its spring action by twisting an axle shaft inside a tube to crush rubber strips, and no shocks Swing arms us springs made of coiled wire, air bags or rubber donuts that get squeezed as the swing arm travels upward. Swing arm systems use shocks. Swing arm systems have alignment adjustments and torsion doesn't. it is also important to note that swing arm and torsion systems should be towed level because they have no equalizers like leaf spring systems do. This makes the tandem tires carry equal weight and may help stability. Leaf spring suspension is fine for a dump trailer, but I have no interest in it for a travel trailer.

 

[HayStax]

I spent 23hrs traveling in a Tahoe with a leaky air suspension. By the time we got home I vowed never ever to have air suspension. Id rather find a specialty shop and pay for custom springs or leafs than suffer the constant drone of the air compressor.

OTR trucks and trailers drive millions of miles each year on air ride suspension. Buy some better fittings and hoses.