Best grounding to protect the radio

Mashurst

Adventurer
Background for those that may not know:
Unlike most 12v things in a vehicle a radio requires particular attention to grounding such as a fuse in the ground line and a solid copper path back to the core of the vehicles charging system. The reason for this is that should the vehicles own ground path be disrupted for any reason such as a failure of the ground strap, the path of least resistances may be through the jacket of the radios antenna coax. This path tends to be destructive to the radio. Most radio manufacturers recommend in their manual that the radio be wired directly to the battery positive and negative terminals with a fuse in each line.

The question:
Is the negative battery post the best ground location in terms of protecting the radio? If the main vehicle chassis ground (that is the wire from the battery to the body) were to become intermittent or fail in any way. It seems unlikely that the ground line fuse would blow fast enough to protect the delicate semiconductor type components in a modern radio transceiver. A fellow on the local repeater was asserting last night that grounding the radio to the vehicles main chassis ground point would somehow solve this problem. He said Motorola and other commercial types recommend chassis ground at some kind of ground node rather than battery ground. I didn’t get a clear understanding of what his rational was but it does seem logical that if the failure of the vehicle ground system that was threatening the radio happened to be a bad connection at the main chassis ground the radio would be losing its ground at the same time thus elimination it as a possible ground loop thru the coax. Barring that narrow scenario however and assuming a ground short could happen in any number of other places it seems only marginally better. An electrical engineer friend has also told me that I should connect the radio ground wire to the chassis near the radio in addition to the wire back to the battery/main chassis ground point.

My setup:
The negative post on my battery has two large wires, one that runs to the unit-body and one to the starter. There is also a strap from the engine to the body. This forms a ground triangle where any single line could fail and I would still have some kind of ground. My radio is on an auxiliary 8 gauge circuit that I added that connects to the battery lugs per my radios manual. It has a self-resetting breaker near the battery connection only on the positive side and then runs through the firewall where it splits into 4 pairs of Anderson power poles. I plug the radio into one of these power poles with the stock wires and the OEM duel fuse arrangement.

So what do you think? Would it be a good idea to move the ground wire for my aux circuit from the battery post to the body end of the wire that goes from the battery to the body? What about a second body ground inside the cab for this aux circuit?
 

xtatik

Explorer
Most radio manufacturers recommend in their manual that the radio be wired directly to the battery positive and negative terminals with a fuse in each line.

An electrical engineer friend has also told me that I should connect the radio ground wire to the chassis near the radio in addition to the wire back to the battery/main chassis ground point.

I do these two things.^^
The 857 isn't supplied with a grounding post/screw on the back of the radio chassis. So, I use one of the holes already tapped for the mounting bracket. I attached a short (2") pigtail/dongle with a single black PowerPole terminal connector. My truck has the factory stereo amp mounted under the passenger seat next to where I chose to mount the 857. I found a solid grounding point on the amps factory mount. A short ground strap with a single mating PowerPole connector is attached/detached to the radio when it gets mounted/removed.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
More fuel for the fire.
After a bit of reading I'm thinking I need to:
1) add a new ground in the cab near the radio
2) move the wire from the negative post to a new dedicated body ground near the battery to body wires connection to the body
3) remove the negative fuse.
Positive and negative power feed to the battery, leave fuses in both legs and add a chassis ground from the radio to the vehicle body. The reason that you want both + and - to the battery is to minimize differential noise. Radios have good common mode filters, but if the two sides of the circuit are not equal the filter does nothing. You could put in bomb-proof 6AWG cables and still end up with alternator whine or ignition noise if the two sides are not the same length and run through the same EMI environment. The ground from the radio body to the vehicle is solely an RF ground to prevent the coax shield or DC return from being the RF return. The negative fuse is necessary really only if you wire directly to the battery. If the positive side shorted across the fuse, then you end up with cooked wires or/and radio if there was no negative side fuse to open.

That the FT-857 has no ground screw is irritating. They put one on the FT-817. I used the mounting screws that hold the radio to the brackets, but I've also thought about tapping the heat sink or something. I ended up taking the radio out of my truck, though, just running it portable. Still needs a grounding screw, though...
 
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ScoutII

Adventurer
Positive and negative power feed to the battery, leave fuses in both legs and add a chassis ground from the radio to the vehicle body. The reason that you want both + and - to the battery is to minimize differential noise. Radios have good common mode filters, but if the two sides of the circuit are not equal the filter does nothing. You could put in bomb-proof 6AWG cables and still end up with alternator whine or ignition noise if the two sides are not the same length and run through the same EMI environment. The ground from the radio body to the vehicle is solely an RF ground to prevent the coax shield or DC return from being the RF return. The negative fuse is necessary really only if you wire directly to the battery. If the positive side shorted across the fuse, then you end up with cooked wires or/and radio if there was no negative side fuse to open.

That the FT-857 has no ground screw is irritating. They put one on the FT-817. I used the mounting screws that hold the radio to the brackets, but I've also thought about tapping the heat sink or something. I ended up taking the radio out of my truck, though, just running it portable. Still needs a grounding screw, though...

9 times out of 10 for alternator whine or ignition noise is a ground loop. This is caused by grounding the radio at some point other then at the battery or the point where the battery is attached to the body. This is more noticeable at lower transmission freq.

Commercial installations do whats fast and cheap, as labor cost is a huge factor. Take your junk to an installer and he will run a power wire and ground it to the nearest bolt. Why, Fast and Cheap. You can pick 2 ( Good / Fast / Cheap) but not all three.
So it can be Good & Cheap, but not fast. it can be Fast & Cheap, but not good, Fast & Good but not cheap. You get the point.
You can get trailer wire, that is two conductors in a jacketed cover that looks like Romex wire. You can get Landscape wire which is two wire, but both the same color. So its not a big deal to run a power and ground to your radio.
The body of the car/truck is used to dump all your car/truck powered items onto so it can have an RF signal traveling back to the battery on it. How not to pick that up that signal, is don't use a common ground like the body. The radio has to use something as a reference to amplify the signal. Your ground is that reference, and if it got noise on it you will amplify that noise.

So your best bet it to run 2 wires to the radio. Just like your manual shows.

W12GA.JPG

If your on a real budget, you could even use an old power cord. If money is not a major hangup look at what boats use. Marine wire is fully tinned to provide the best connections without corrosion.
http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/ these guys have lot of stuff, plus quick and cheap shipping too. I got all my connectors and Adhesive Heat Shrink from them. Its the kind with the glue inside too:sombrero:
 

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