BFG T/A KO2 in 275/55/20 on LR4

XJLI

Adventurer
With that argument, you should never lift any modern truck, because it wasn't "designed to be that way."
 

99Discovery

Adventurer
Jwestpro is absolutely 100% correct. If the performance parameter is carving mountain roads, 20mm below stock will be much safer and offer greater performance than 62mm above stock. And a Miata would be even safer than an LR3.

The biggest (and most dangerous failure) I have seen on ANY off-road vehicle is a tire sidewall tear. And they have always been P-rated tires, which are on the lovely 19" rims or 20"s. Heck, you can get 20" E-rates, but unless you get a 32" tire (with Johnson rods) you won't have enough side-wall to support the tire anyway. 18"s are far susperios, and 16"s are ideal (stupid big brakes, but if you went smaller calipers that would lower your safety factor while carving mountain roads, right?).

The fact is, many of us on this forum are building our rovers for Overland/extended travel away from society and/or the weekend getaway/rock crawl. In that situation a lift is MUCH safer because the increased safety/approach/breakover angles prevent being immobilized by an obstacle and the bigger tires with tougher sidewalls prevent tire failures.

We are all aware of air-line, LCA, and compressor wear and it seems one can keep up with that and/or do a trail repair if needed. The only failure everyone panics about is a bump-stop drop, but in all my research (I'm going to pull the trigger on an L322 someday), I have yet to see it really happen in the "wild", especially if one keeps up on the air system maintenance.

2.5" isn't a big deal, especially if one dials back the speed/cornering and understands his LR3/4 really shouldnt' be going 80mph on the interstate with ARB bumpers, 32" tires, and a loaded roof rack...
 

Jwestpro

Explorer
With that argument, you should never lift any modern truck, because it wasn't "designed to be that way."
I don't think I ever said "shouldn't". I wanted to make it clear that there is no fooling yourself that is it "just as safe". All my Land Rovers are lifted ;) but there's a difference in lifting a solid axle vs independent suspension vehicle. For example, the vehicle track is narrower on a 2.5" lifted LR3 unless countering with spacers or wider offset wheels. It all ads up. But the big difference between lifting my D2 a couple inches and the LR3 is the D2 got different springs and dampers engineered for that movement. The LR3 does not. My D2 still retains all of it's suspension articulation and more natural dynamics. The LR3 gets butchered and handles as such no matter how a person tells themselves it feels "cool".
 

Jwestpro

Explorer
2.5" isn't a big deal, especially if one dials back the speed/cornering and understands his LR3/4 really shouldnt' be going 80mph on the interstate with ARB bumpers, 32" tires, and a loaded roof rack...
Well ****, then I'd never get "there" !

Honestly, part of why I like rolling interstate at normal height, is to be doing it safely at 80 in WA, 85-90 in MT, etc. It's amazing how well the LR3 can still behave even loaded to 8000 lbs if you keep the center of gravity low and well sprung.

You make the point of "lift" being important. My argument is not about the importance of "lift". If a person more or less runs the lr3 fully lifted all the time, then they might as well have bought something with steel springs and quit the nonsense. Running all the time lifted negates the benefits of having an air suspension in the first place. Might as well do the spring swap.
 

XJLI

Adventurer
Running all the time lifted negates the benefits of having an air suspension in the first place. Might as well do the spring swap.
I can agree with this. I think if I had a LR3 or a newer air suspended Rover I'd run the new spacers, Gap tool, and trim the inner fenders for bigger tires.
 

Twisty360

New member
285/55/r20

Here's my take on the tires, height and safety. Running 285x55x20 TA KO's.
I run a rod mod. The mod increases the air in the strut which stiffens the ride slightly which I feel compensates for the 2 1/2 inch lift. As stated I run 20's which are E rated which both make for less sidewall roll which also compensates for the 2 1/2 inch lift. Is there a reduction in safety? I'm anal, I took that into consideration that's why I run the combination I do. A reduction in safety? I don't think you could calculate it. You still have tire tread and compound, road surface, weather, speed, and mental drivers. I think any weight on your roof in a rack, without stiffing the suspension or larger sway bars is a reduction in ride safety. But Land Rover put a rack on top considering people are in general smart enough to change their driving habits after making the first turn. My LR is a heavy pig, so it’s hard to speedway race. But, I bet it will fare extremely well by design in a rollover. But I love it. Comfortable to drive for hours on the road and I can still enjoy a couple of hours of good technical offroading when I arrive. Sorry, bigger tires, sitting up higher all the time, I like the look, and I like personalizing the look of my ride (again my take on it). I have close to 40000 mile on a lifted and aligned (lifted) LR3. I've been watching my drive train components for years to write a thread on all the wear with the lift compared to a stock LR guy I know. Do I have to wait for 300,000 miles to see that wear? I think mine looks better for wear underneath right now and I probably wouldn't care in 300,000. Oh yes, I do carry a computer to hack the suspension. I also have my own emergency bump stops for the front so I can steer if the suspension should do the dreaded fail thing. Never seen it or know anyone to have it. But, I have had compressor failure via getting old, which after a hack reset; it coughed and sputtered enough to air back up for the 5 hour drive home. Once you hear it not pumping smoothly don't lower it down for the wife to get out, and surly don't test it, that’s what you will want to do. Wait until you're home because it might not want to go back up. I have also had line failure. I know you can find that branch; it’s the one with sonar for plastic lines. Take repair parts. I have only read about the dreaded failure happening to two people. As for tire size and rubbing NWoods web page, Johnson Rods page. My take on it, choose what look you want. I think we worry too much about making changes, especially 2 ½ inches. Drive that beast and enjoy.
I just installed LR4 stormers on mine with Nitto Terra Grappler G2's with the size 285/55/r20 and it was pretty difficult. I had to spend over 300$ to get the wheel wells trimmed, which involved hacking an inch into the frame and now the air conditioning line is exposed and could be rubbed up against if I turned the wheel full lock going slow. My question is how did you get yours to fit your LR3 XRAY? And does anyone have any suggestions on some type of liner to bolt on to the exposed wheel well now that it is hacked up?
 

Jeff0093

New member
For the people running 20's what width wheel and offset are you running. thinking about 275/55/20 KO2 on a 9 inch wide wheel with a ET of 42.
 

Jwestpro

Explorer
Using the rods full time is idiotic and inferior. I run 32" and 34" BFG without need for the problem inducing rods.
 

Jwestpro

Explorer
The factory liners work fine. There is just one place to patch where the rear buldge has to be cut out after moving the lines back there and flattening the body seam. Up front it's a simple slide and tuck away. If someone "hacked" things up, you're due a refund.

I can grab photos if you like to help you in right direction. In fact right now the liners are out for suspension access so I can show you body mods too.

Wheel spacers shouldn't be needed with a 275 tire on standard 20" wheel. Spacers actually reduce clearance under most circumstances for the front wheels and even the rear for deep articulation.

Use of tires under 34" don't require full time lift either. Doing that introduces a list of negative issues with almost zero improvement except solely for posing.
 

shedlock2000

Observer
The factory liners work fine. There is just one place to patch where the rear buldge has to be cut out after moving the lines back there and flattening the body seam. Up front it's a simple slide and tuck away. If someone "hacked" things up, you're due a refund.

I can grab photos if you like to help you in right direction. In fact right now the liners are out for suspension access so I can show you body mods too.

Wheel spacers shouldn't be needed with a 275 tire on standard 20" wheel. Spacers actually reduce clearance under most circumstances for the front wheels and even the rear for deep articulation.

Use of tires under 34" don't require full time lift either. Doing that introduces a list of negative issues with almost zero improvement except solely for posing.
I have read your comments on lifts in this thread with interest, JWestPro. As mentioned earlier, I am trying to go for 275/55/20s (though I have gone with LR044848 rims; 20x8.5, +47mm). These rims seem to be a compromise between a slightly wider spread and a slightly wider rim.

I currently have a 1/2" electronic lift on my LR3, and I am thinking I might need to tweak that by another 1/2". I am in agreement with the 'as little lift as necessary' mentality. What amount of e-lift did you have to do to get your 275/55/20s under your LR4? Do you think 1" will cut it? I am also going to invest in a GAP Tool -- was your GAP Tool suspension calibration and lift complicated?

I have also heard many people successfully put the 275/55/20s on without any liner modification; I have also heard of many that cannot. I can only assume that there is some moderate difference in liner fit from one vehicle to the next. I am hoping to get away without any liner/pipe/cable mods.
 

SteveMfr

Supporting Sponsor
I have read your comments on lifts in this thread with interest, JWestPro... ....I am also going to invest in a GAP Tool -- was your GAP Tool suspension calibration and lift complicated?
Hi shedlock,
One of the things that we implemented in the IIDTool is a raising/lowering procedure that does not require a full calibration with altered measurements to do an electronic lift. It is as simple as entering the menu, selecting the desired lift (or drop for the bling crowd) and exiting the menu. See video 5 on our demo page: https://www.gap-diagnostic.com/support/medias/ . This is shown using the vehicle's integrated info display and cruise control switches (hence the name Integrated Interface Diagnostic Tool), but with the IIDTool BT you have the option of an iOS/Android app or the integrated display/controls. It literally takes less than a minute and is much quicker and easier (and less dirty) than installing rods.

Sorry to jump in on your conversation. I just thought I could shed a little light on the discussion.

JWest: pics would be very helpful! Would you mind if we re-post them at some point? We have people asking regularly.
 
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