Building a Chinese expedition truck, possible ?

[Renaat]

A short introduction:
1. I am a Belgian living in China for 10 years. I have experience with sailboats, and was member of a 4x4 club when lived in France during 14 years, travelled to Morocco and all over Europe with my 3 Toyota hdj100's, adapted to my needs.
2. Chinese law to drive with normal C1/C2 driver's license means: maximum length is 6m and maximum GVW is < 12 ton.
3. In China it is extremely difficult to convert goods as you need official transform companies to do the job, also work space is an issue. All living areas are restricted to have personal garage to perform the task of transformation.

What we bought ?
After years of research, going from Isuzu to Shackman/Howo/Sytrak..... we finally made our conclusion. As I want to build myself, all classic solutions are too difficult for me as you have to build the exterior box. Afterwards you need a homologation for a blue license plate (=normal driver's license) what is very risky to obtain and can only be done by an official transformation company.
So we went to a completely new design by the Dongfeng Company (one of the biggest companies in China, famous for its military trucks and missiles) that introduced a civilised military bus truck.
details: http://www.sfyyqc.com/dfyykc-947.html#
It is like a huge van but extra strong.

We expect delivery within 3 months (end December 2022). Meanwhile we made agreement with Dongfeng to deliver us temporarily plate to drive the truck to our city (about 1000 km), doing the transformation ourselves (3-6 months) and drive back to Dongfeng to be inspected and getting our definite Blue license plate, organised by Dongfeng or its subsidiaries.

Meanwhile I made the interior design what is extremely difficult as the limitation of space due to the 6m limitation.
Our requirements: no bling bling, but efficiency and some comfort for 2 persons plus dog, 10 days independency, possible to have a 3th person on board. Thinking at our design and to realise it, the biggest problem will be the workflow scheme. You only have the door to get all in !

I will update my work starting from December when we will buy all elements. It will be published here and on facebook and Youtube (in China also on TikTok).
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/renaat.ceulenaere

 

[llamalander]

May all the gods smile upon your venture!
May your truck surmount any mountain of paperwork you encounter!
Keep posting!

 

[vintageracer]

Looks like a "Perfect" size to me!

 

[Renaat]

OK, already an idea of what has to be constructed:
Some sizes: 400L fresh water tank, 130L each for the grey and black water tank. 320L diesel tank. 15kWh batteries. 8kW inverter. 1,4x1,9m fix bed. 4,5L Cummins/Dongfeng Euro6 engine, 157kW/2300r/min, torque 820Nm @ 1300-1500 r/min, 5,99mx2,5mx3,35m, interior finished height 1,92m, wheelbase 3,7m. Tyres 365/80R20. Permanent 4x4, Alison 6 speed H&L aut. gear, central tyre inflation, engine heater, air brakes.
Curb weight before interior decoration: 7,2 T. GVW: 11,95T. All steel construction, electrophoresis treatment, torsion free.
Interior will be constructed with bamboo 12mm/20mm/30mm. Isolation XPS foam walls 50mm, roof 60mm, floor 60 to 140 mm.

Other ideas or suggestions are welcome, let's build together.

 

[llamalander]

Wow! Super compact! Will the front seats swivel around?
I've seen some good examples of using a temporary enclosure for the shower & toilet so the area can be enjoyed when those functions are not required.
These generally have a waterproof floor or pan and curtain walls that can be closed for privacy, but are otherwise open space with the plumbing parts concealed inside a countertop or other multi-function space. Perhaps using only one sink could help?

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

Delete the roof vents and use the space to maximise solar. Have a sliding window in the bathroom to allow it to stay slightly open while driving. Other windows are best as hoppers for better ventilation.
Diesel heating?
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[Renaat]

Wow! Super compact! Will the front seats swivel around?
I've seen some good examples of using a temporary enclosure for the shower & toilet so the area can be enjoyed when those functions are not required.
These generally have a waterproof floor or pan and curtain walls that can be closed for privacy, but are otherwise open space with the plumbing parts concealed inside a countertop or other multi-function space. Perhaps using only one sink could help?

Thanks for your advices. I will modify the front seats so that they can swivel, especially the driver's seat. We preview to travel as a couple with dog (golden retriever), exceptionally the sister of my wife will join. So space enough. I like a separate bathroom, it is big enough, 1,1m x 0,9m. I've seen much smaller.

 

[Renaat]

Delete the roof vents and use the space to maximise solar. Have a sliding window in the bathroom to allow it to stay slightly open while driving. Other windows are best as hoppers for better ventilation.
Diesel heating?
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Originally, we didn't design the roof vents and had about 1,7kWh solar. Suggestions I received on other channels told me to divide the solar panels at least in 4 pieces to have better efficiency and security if one fails. As my wife wanted to look the stars, indeed I put very small roof vents. Still 1,4 kWh on solar. I agree with your sliding window in the bathroom, but refused by wife. When the heating or aircon is on, there will be a natural airflow passing all places in the truck.
Indeed, there will be a Chinese copy of the Truma 6De. As the truck will have an engine heater as standard, perhaps I will install or at least preview a heater matrix in this circuit. Further we will have a 9000 btu under bench heater/cooler (Dometic copy). Our windows and hatches will be top insulated. Exterior with thick laminated glass, argon gas airspace and interior glass. For the hatches we use similar frames and will replace the glass with 5 cm xps foam, covered by alu plates.

 

[Renaat]

Hello, can someone help me to find a regulator with altitude sensor to automatic adjust the diesel/air mix at different altitudes ? Thanks for helping.

 

[charlieaarons]

Not sure I agree w/Peter re deleting roof vents. My camper came with 1 in bathroom. I added second one over rear bed, now third towards front for cooking and closer to front bed. Also added 2 small quiet fans on each interior front and rear wall, just changed to KCT supposedly mosquito and blackfly proof window screens.
Why? So I could delete noisy, unreliable air conditioning. That requires using 1 cyl diesel generator when on for more than a few minutes. Which I deleted and replaced with a midships fuel tank. Which allows me to keep rear tanks empty, greatly improving weight distribution. Along with some other weight redistribution measures.
And I upgraded to 5x190w solar panels replacing 16yo 130w panels. Which allowed me to replace propane cooktop with induction, getting rid of more weight and making more space in the rear storage compartment.
On a recent trip the solar/electric system had zero problem keeping up with demand. Even when I used the 120v AC water heater to help the Webasto.
Bottom line: 1.4kWe solar will be enough, keep the ventilation system, think about not have air conditioning and a noisy, disruptive but necessary for AC generator.
I considered low powered DC air conditioned but in the end rejected the idea. Our(second) vacation homes have the wonderful ability to move when it gets too hot and humid at night, to a higher altitude or cooler area.

 

[1000arms]

... I've seen some good examples of using a temporary enclosure for the shower & toilet so the area can be enjoyed when those functions are not required.
These generally have a waterproof floor or pan and curtain walls that can be closed for privacy, but are otherwise open space with the plumbing parts concealed inside a countertop or other multi-function space. ...

A flip-down waterproof shower-tub with a lip across the top of the shower-pan (when flipped down) which prevents the shower-pan from leaking any water when the empty (but not bone-dry) shower-pan is flipped up after use might work well.

Two shower curtains, each forming a "U", with the "U"s overlapping, might protect the interior.

An external shower with flip-down shower-pan and deployable walls/curtains, in addition to the interior shower, might also be useful.

 

[Renaat]

Not sure I agree w/Peter re deleting roof vents. My camper came with 1 in bathroom. I added second one over rear bed, now third towards front for cooking and closer to front bed. Also added 2 small quiet fans on each interior front and rear wall, just changed to KCT supposedly mosquito and blackfly proof window screens.
Why? So I could delete noisy, unreliable air conditioning. That requires using 1 cyl diesel generator when on for more than a few minutes. Which I deleted and replaced with a midships fuel tank. Which allows me to keep rear tanks empty, greatly improving weight distribution. Along with some other weight redistribution measures.
And I upgraded to 5x190w solar panels replacing 16yo 130w panels. Which allowed me to replace propane cooktop with induction, getting rid of more weight and making more space in the rear storage compartment.
On a recent trip the solar/electric system had zero problem keeping up with demand. Even when I used the 120v AC water heater to help the Webasto.
Bottom line: 1.4kWe solar will be enough, keep the ventilation system, think about not have air conditioning and a noisy, disruptive but necessary for AC generator.
I considered low powered DC air conditioned but in the end rejected the idea. Our(second) vacation homes have the wonderful ability to move when it gets too hot and humid at night, to a higher altitude or cooler area.

Thanks for sharing real life experiences. We studied a lot about improvements on insulation. Originally we would like to apply silica aerogels, but ? too expensive. Idem for the KCT windows. I find it very strange that only 2 companies in the world produce high quality RV windows. KCT and Outbound. Finally I looked to the hundreds of Chinese window-makers for domestic use to find the profile I needed and the flexibility of choice in the glass. The most common problem is that in domestic windows the interior frame has the same size as the exterior. Firstly I came with the idea to weld an extra aluminium layer on the exterior frame so that I can push it on the exterior wall and fix it. After days of research I found a company that has the frame I wanted ! The exterior frame is 2,5 to 3 cm larger than the rest, so I can rivet the window on my exterior wall. Negociating with Dongfeng, I obtained that they move the truck frame according to my window size. It will be ultra strong at a very low price and... custom sizes. Exterior laminated glass 12,76mm, interior float glass 10mm, between 9mm argon gas filled air. The frame has a thermal break what also helps to limit vibrations to the glass. I really didn't like the offers of acrylic glass as it always is mounted 1-2 cm out of the truck.
I will make detail photos/videos when installing the windows and hatches to give you an idea how to make cheaper and better solutions.

 

[Renaat]

A flip-down waterproof shower-tub with a lip across the top of the shower-pan (when flipped down) which prevents the shower-pan from leaking any water when the empty (but not bone-dry) shower-pan is flipped up after use might work well.

Two shower curtains, each forming a "U", with the "U"s overlapping, might protect the interior.

An external shower with flip-down shower-pan and deployable walls/curtains, in addition to the interior shower, might also be useful.

Hi, OK that this solution gives more space. But I really insist on keeping separate bathroom, no curtains etc. As we have open space to the driver's cabin, the limited space around table/kitchen area will not feel so small. The feeling of space is sometimes more important than calculating cm2.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

Here is another option for the roof.
If it is going to rain, at least have the option to collect it. A light shower can fill the tanks.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[Renaat]

I agree with you, but... to change the exterior construction of the truck is almost impossible with Dongfeng. Not only for construction reasons, but every exterior change needs a new announcement to the public transport services what is a complicated process and costs 3500 USD. Indeed, we don't have all the freedoms you have in the West, that is why this project is a big challenge and needs a lot of negotiations. Limiting weldings is also my purpose, it limits rust.
For water supply: we will have a custom made stainless steel tank of a 400 litre. Enough for 2-3 persons to survive. We also preview an extra high performance pump at the inlet of the tank to suck water out of lakes and rivers with a separate filtration system to keep the fresh water tank bacteria free. At the moment we have a doubt to have the water inlet in the garage or in the exterior wall. In the garage => no extra hole in the exterior wall, well protected against freezing and criminal poisoning our fresh water. Keeping the hatch open during filling will keep us alert to have an eye in case of overfilling.