Converting to manual locking front hubs

[Metcalf]

Once again, not the case with traditional bearings. A quick shot of grease and retorque doesnt even require removing the wheel. Even if you are going all the way down to races, still dont have to remove the spindle. And in a pinch all you need is a hammer and a few punches to do so.

Around here (far from so-cal) its pretty routine for unit bearings to go in less than 75k. Lots of gravel roads, snow, ice, deicer…. Rough roads and contamination. All plays into it. And they simple do not last.

How exactly are you getting a 'quick shot' of grease into pretty much any traditional wheel bearing setup, specifically the inner bearing? Once contaminated, you have to completely strip things down to the spindle to repack the wheel bearings. I have never seen a grease port on any 4x4 application front axle with traditional wheel bearings. To just repack the inner bearing, you have to replace the spindle seal. The only hack I have seen that actually works for the inner bearing ( if just adding grease to an existing packed bearing ) is using a long thin grease needle to carefully get around the seal inbetween each roller ( and that requires completely removing the bearing hub ).

Colorado here. My 2007 F350 has 160k+ miles and is still on the stock unit bearings. Still tight as the day they where new. We have lots of gravel roads, snow, ice, road spray, etc. I've actually had more issues with the traditional rear axle bearing setup.....I've had to replace the spindle seals on both sides along with the parking brake backing plate on the passenger side.

P.S. You are missing the point about the spindle to knuckle interface. With both systems, you have to remove the spindle or unit bearing to access anything deeper like a front axle shaft ( which is FAR more likely to fail than any wheel bearing in an 'overlanding' off-road application ). On pretty much any open knuckle 4wd solid front axle you cannot pull the knuckle off without getting the front spindle ( or unit bearing ) out of the knuckle....then the shaft, then you can get the knuckle off the ball joints. The only one I have seen be able to cheat that is closed knuckle toyota axles.....and even that is a pain in the rear. Plan on pulling the spindle or unit bearing. It's worth the time to get a smear of anti-seize on those mating surfaces if you ever have the front axle apart. With a traditional setup, you also have to pull the spindle to replace the inner spindle bearing that rides on the axle shaft and it's seal too....all part of good maintenance.

 

[Metcalf]

If you are worried about being able to add grease to a unit bearing, it is possible to add some through most ABS ports with a conversion fitting.



If you are still using the factory ABS, you just have to pull the grease port after you are done and re-install the sensor.

Super Duty Dana 60 Unit Bearing Grease Fitting Adapter

We created our Dana 60 Super Duty unit bearing grease zerk adapter to install in the same location as the ABS sensor on Ford 05-up Superduty axles. In stock form no provision is provided to add grease to your unit bearings. By adding this adapter you will be able to add grease to your unit...

barnes4wd.com

 

[IdaSHO]

How exactly are you getting a 'quick shot' of grease into pretty much any traditional wheel bearing setup, specifically the inner bearing?

Its easy access once you remove the locking hub and outer bearing. But understand, this is NOT considered a proper repair.

P.S. You are missing the point about the spindle to knuckle interface. With both systems, you have to remove the spindle or unit bearing to access anything deeper like a front axle shaft ( which is FAR more likely to fail than any wheel bearing in an 'overlanding' off-road application ).

Not missing anything.
But this does bring up another feature for traditional bearings. With everything apart, is just a few minutes extra to inspect and repack bearings.
Not the case with unit bearings. You just toss them back on and assume the best.



My most recent personal experience with unit bearings was this...

At roughly 140k I started noticing a noise...
Rotate tires, change pressures, check joints, elevate truck and do a bearing wiggle test...
Nothing showed.
So I took it to two shops.
They told me it was likely tires.

Shortly after I pull it into the shop to do a rotation.
Keep in mind I've only put maybe 100 miles on it since the noise.
Once the tire was removed it was obviously bearings.
Zero play, but nearly frozen. I could barely spin the drivers hub by hand.
Passengers was okay... but still crunchy.

Drivers was not OEM. Pass was Motorcraft, but there was evidence (chisel marks)
on the knuckle. Neither were original bearings. At 140k.

So I start digging into what its going to take for bearing swap.
Near $500 per side, and 3-5 days for parts via the dealer.
Add into that labor, and you are into it $2000
I know, 'cause I checked.

Damn good thing the tire shops give me just enough trouble to do a 5-tire rotation that I do it myself.
Had I been, say, an ignorant old fella with a camper loaded, wife in the passenger seat, headed on a cross country trip....

BUT, had the truck already had traditionally bearings, there is a very good chance that a gasoline bath and
repack would have it back on the road in just a couple of hours. Worse case, toss a set of bearings and seals at it.
Seriously, we are talking about $50 in parts, that every parts house in the country likely stocks.[/QUOTE]

 

[IdaSHO]

And back around to pricing.... lets set this straight....

Lets assume a similar scenario.
2011 Superduty at 70k (average life of bearings so far) comes in for bearings.

Option #1 OEM
Unit bearings themselves
$400+ each currently (x2) $800+
Labor ~$500 per side $1000

So you are into it $1800, call it $2000 after taxes and such for OEM, just wheel bearings (unit hubs)

DC3Z1104A - Ford Wheel Bearing and Hub Assembly (Front) | Lakeland Ford Online Parts, Lakeland FL

Genuine Ford Part # DC3Z1104A (DC3Z-1104-A) - Wheel Bearing and Hub Assembly (Front). Fits F-250 Super Duty, F-350 Super Duty. Ships from Lakeland Ford Online Parts, Lakeland FL

parts.lakelandford.com

Option #2 Dynatrac
At the time I purchased my set, it was right at $2k
Mine came with Warn premium hubs, an option they have since dropped in favor of the dynatrac hubs.
Still, lets roll with the new price, complete conversion with upgrade to dynatrac hubs $2500
Labor? Lets assume 2x that of just bearings $1000 per side $2000

So you are into it $4500 for the conversion, and brand new lockouts.

Free-Spin™ Kit 2005-2014 Ford F-250 and F-350 with DynaLoc™ Hubs for SRW and DRW

The Dynatrac Free-Spin™ Heavy-Duty Hub Conversion Kit for SRW and DRW 2005-2014 Ford F-250 and F-350 Super Duty trucks is designed to replace the factory unit bearings with fixed spindles for superior strength, and smooth performance. This kit includes DynaLoc™ locking hubs.

www.dynatrac.com

Which seems expensive at first glance. You are paying double what you could have.
But lets look further down the road from a cost perspective.... Say, at 140k?

First, labor rates change. The first set of unit bearings may cost $1000 for labor.
How about the second? In this wacky inflation world? Likely considerably more.

Second, parts availability. No guarantee that the parts house near where you broke down have parts.
In my searches, not one parts house in this area had Motorcraft unit bearings.
Autozone, Oreilly, Carquest, Napa.... nope Time costs money.

Third.... hassle, to stop and change bearings. Could be a couple of days, or even weeks.
Dollars to pesos the traditional bearings dont need replaced yet. Likely dont even "need" a service.
Just keep on rolling.... Labor labor....



So from where Im sitting, so long as you get at least one lifespan of a unit bearing, call it 50k, 75k, 100k, whatever,
out of the conversion you are dollars ahead. Certainly not a "lot of unit bearings"

You can buy a lot of unit bearings ( anywhere ) for the cost of one conversion kit ( that uses special parts ).

 

[IdaSHO]

If you are worried about being able to add grease to a unit bearing, it is possible to add some through most ABS ports with a conversion fitting.

View attachment 757413

If you are still using the factory ABS, you just have to pull the grease port after you are done and re-install the sensor.

Super Duty Dana 60 Unit Bearing Grease Fitting Adapter

We created our Dana 60 Super Duty unit bearing grease zerk adapter to install in the same location as the ABS sensor on Ford 05-up Superduty axles. In stock form no provision is provided to add grease to your unit bearings. By adding this adapter you will be able to add grease to your unit...

barnes4wd.com

Admitting to a faulty design I see.

Yes, this is what the industry has resorted to, to keep ******** unit bearings alive a little bit longer.

 

[Metcalf]

Its easy access once you remove the locking hub and outer bearing. But understand, this is NOT considered a proper repair.

Not missing anything.
But this does bring up another feature for traditional bearings. With everything apart, is just a few minutes extra to inspect and repack bearings.
Not the case with unit bearings. You just toss them back on and assume the best.


BUT, had the truck already had traditionally bearings, there is a very good chance that a gasoline bath and
repack would have it back on the road in just a couple of hours. Worse case, toss a set of bearings and seals at it.
Seriously, we are talking about $50 in parts, that every parts house in the country likely stocks.

[/QUOTE]

So you are saying doing a crap service trying to squirt in a little grease is going to vastly extend the life of traditional bearings. Sure.

Downside to traditional bearings. When you HAVE to disassemble the sub assembly to say replace an axle in a mud puddle or in a sand storm, everything is open to the weather and contamination. I'd give the edge to the unit bearing as in a lot of cases it will stay all together and pretty well sealed. If you're worried about ruining one, take a spare, just like any well prepared person would do on any vehicle.

Traditional bearings fail just like unit bearings. When they do, they commonly take out the spindle by basically welding themselves to said spindle. In a custom conversion system, that spindle is now a custom part available from one mfg. Good luck getting one in a day or two from Autozone in the middle of nowhere. That would likely push any well prepared person to carry a spare.

 

[Metcalf]

Admitting to a faulty design I see.

Yes, this is what the industry has resorted to, to keep ******** unit bearings alive a little bit longer.

Yeah, that 160k+ I have on the front axle of my 07 F350 is just terrible. *eye roll*

Do what you want, spend thousands on custom one off parts to save a few hundred. Sounds like a great plan.

 

[Metcalf]

Which seems expensive at first glance. You are paying double what you could have.
But lets look further down the road from a cost perspective.... Say, at 140k?

First, labor rates change. The first set of unit bearings may cost $1000 for labor.
How about the second? In this wacky inflation world? Likely considerably more.

Second, parts availability. No guarantee that the parts house near where you broke down have parts.
In my searches, not one parts house in this area had Motorcraft unit bearings.
Autozone, Oreilly, Carquest, Napa.... nope Time costs money.

Third.... hassle, to stop and change bearings. Could be a couple of days, or even weeks.
Dollars to pesos the traditional bearings dont need replaced yet. Likely dont even "need" a service.
Just keep on rolling.... Labor labor....

So from where Im sitting, so long as you get at least one lifespan of a unit bearing, call it 50k, 75k, 100k, whatever,
out of the conversion you are dollars ahead. Certainly not a "lot of unit bearings"

Do we have to run a 'Motorcraft' unit bearing if we are in a pickle?

RockAuto has no less than 49 different options for an 05+ Ford unit bearing assembly. Prices range from $88 all the way to the option you chose at $400. It was great of you to pick the most expensive option to help make your case. I can indeed buy 'a lot' of unit bearings sourced from any parts house along the way in any no name autoparts store in America. I could chuck a $88 unit behind the seat and forget about it till I have a bad day for just about the price of a replacement set of bearings the conversion system. The unit bearing will also fix a spindle issue by the way. Total replacement.

If you think 'any' parts house is going to have the bearings required for your conversion system, you haven't been to most parts houses lately. First you have to find someone that can actually find your part numbers in the computer......then they have to have them in stock. I would definitely suggest keeping a set of bearings in your spare parts bag.....and having the part numbers crossed to something they can look up....like 80s GM one ton truck or whatever the bearings actually came from.

One also doesn't have to worry about whatever company you buy the conversion kit from having a part on the shelf in ten years when you accidently roach a spindle or a bearing hub. It happens. Using common parts that are being built by 49 different companies to support million and millions of vehicles for decades to come sounds like a safer bet to me.

I guess you could always convert back to unit bearings in a pickle.

Good luck with your plan.

 

[IdaSHO]

RockAuto has no less than 49 different options for an 05+ Ford unit bearing assembly. Prices range from $88 all the way to the option you chose at $400. It was great of you to pick the most expensive option to help make your case.

That paints the picture right here.

IF you had any insight into the bearing failures of these trucks you would know that you are miles ahead using OEM bearings.
Same goes for steering components on these Superduty trucks.

Unless it is some HD aftermarket upgrade, anything less and you are simply throwing labor into the toilet.

I did not pick out the most expensive to "prove a point"
I picked OEM. Do it once, do it right.

If you are willing to put a $88 Taiwanese or Indonesian bearing on your truck, by all means go ahead.

 

[IdaSHO]

Hey, please be aware that I mean all of this in good faith, and am in no way looking to wind you up.
I'm sitting here drinking my coffee after blowing snow for the neighborhood for the past 4 hours.

I'm a firm believer that the OEM design is rubbish. SImply put if it wasn't, there wouldn't be a market for freespin kits, or the silly ABS hole lube device.
Obviously you havent seen such failures. Good for you. But please do not pass the OEM setup as perfectly fine, or the conversion kit options as worth "a lot of unit bearings" as they are not.
And quite frankly, you have zero footing to stand on as you have absolutely zero first hand experience with them. Those that have, know there is a benefit.

Have a great day. I've got my coffee to finish and the hounds to walk.

 

[Metcalf]

That paints the picture right here.

IF you had any insight into the bearing failures of these trucks you would know that you are miles ahead using OEM bearings.
Same goes for steering components on these Superduty trucks.

Unless it is some HD aftermarket upgrade, anything less and you are simply throwing labor into the toilet.

I did not pick out the most expensive to "prove a point"
I picked OEM. Do it once, do it right.

If you are willing to put a $88 Taiwanese or Indonesian bearing on your truck, by all means go ahead.

If an $88 dollar parts gets my truck from the problem that hasn't happened yet in 160k+ miles to home, absolutely I would run it. That was my point. I can get that part pretty much anywhere and it is cheap enough to throw a spare in the parts bag for a bad day. I don't need OEM grade for that purpose.

 

[Metcalf]

Hey, please be aware that I mean all of this in good faith, and am in no way looking to wind you up.
I'm sitting here drinking my coffee after blowing snow for the neighborhood for the past 4 hours.

I'm a firm believer that the OEM design is rubbish. SImply put if it wasn't, there wouldn't be a market for freespin kits, or the silly ABS hole lube device.
Obviously you havent seen such failures. Good for you. But please do not pass the OEM setup as perfectly fine, or the conversion kit options as worth "a lot of unit bearings" as they are not.
And quite frankly, you have zero footing to stand on as you have absolutely zero first hand experience with them. Those that have, know there is a benefit.

Have a great day. I've got my coffee to finish and the hounds to walk.

And I am a firm believer that the OEM design isn't rubbish, specifically the 05+ ford stuff. ( and honestly most oem UNIT bearing setups )

.....and I have plenty of experience to stand on. Thank you very much. I've been running unit bearings ( and traditional bearings ) in severe duty applications for decades. My current tow-haul daily is an 07 Ford F350 with the very system we are debating about. I also ran, and maintained, a fleet of 99-04 F350-550 trucks for the BLM when I ran Type 6 fire engines. In those applications, even commonly over-loaded, we didn't see an a trend of front unit bearing failures.

If the traditional bearing setup was THAT much better, we wouldn't have seen a fundamental shift away from it across the board in pretty much every single vehicle manufacturer. Nothing is perfect. Everything has a service life.

If you want to spend thousands in custom parts to save a few hundred in maintenance or perhaps having a spare part for insurance, by all means go ahead. The aftermarket industry will be glad to sell you stuff, that frankly, many people just don't really need.

You have a great day as well.

 

[craig333]

Dynatrac sell a bearing and seal kit. I carry it. They look like they'd be fairly common but what do i know. I notice most of ya are running fords. I wonder if the dodge design is significantly different.

 

[Metcalf]

Dynatrac sell a bearing and seal kit. I carry it. They look like they'd be fairly common but what do i know. I notice most of ya are running fords. I wonder if the dodge design is significantly different.

Good job carrying spare parts. That preparation would fix either system reliably.

Here are the part numbers for the Dynatrac Free-Spin service parts. It's probably worth printing that out and sticking it in the glove box. I think they are the same for all the different versions in that family of conversions.

Free-Spin™ Service Parts - Free-Spin Kits

www.dynatrac.com

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

So a Honda Pilot has a press in unibearing.
Nearly everything else these days is a bolt in. 3 or 4 big bolts and the bearing is free of the knuckle.
You can get unibearings with free spinning hubs, Ford puts them on in the factory.

Colorado twins, 4Runner, Taco, Ranger, Bronco... all pressed in.

No idea how many bearings I put in my old F-150, the only cheapie was the one I put on it to kill the abs light right before I sold it it at just north of 200k.

My "new" F-150 got a new one right after I got it at 106k.

IMO unit bearings are quicker to get thru a shop, and require little to no skill to assemble on an assembly line. Cost out the door for the customer for smaller vehicles are probably about the same if you don't DIY.

I wouldn't go out of my way to convert with aftermarket mumbo jumbo though.