Diesel vs gas engine for camping and General purpose

#47
@Clutch @Dalko43 @charlieaarons any insight, or are you guys too busy with your back and forth?
Diesel would be a touch better than gas given the era of vehicle you are looking at. Don’t really have to worry about SCR emmision systems when you go South if the border. It has been about 6 years since I have been in Baja, not sure how many stations carry low sulfur diesel.

But you don’t have to worry about that.

At 4000 lbs dry, are you looking at single rear or duals? The era of F250 you're looking IIRC the payload of SRW is below 3000 lbs. Will have to lookup the duals. Payload is a whole other thread...

20 year old vehicle will have issues no matter wha it is, but anything can be fixed. as long as you’re willing.
 
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#48
We got a smoking deal on our 2004 smb with a v10. The comparable vans with a 7.3 were $13-15k higher, and most had a lot more miles. We debated it, and decided when the time came, we could have a crate motor installed, eat the difference in fuel economy, and still come out on top in total $ spent over the projected ownership time of the van
(10-15 years) after figuring in the difference in periodic service costs. Also, we won’t be towing anything.
 
#49
@Clutch, go back to your personal thread if you feel the need to vent like this.

I didn't come into this thread aiming to start a personal argument with you, or anyone else. It's very obvious, from your original comments, that your participation in this thread had an ulterior motive.
.
Ahh see...there is that being a dick thing again. You should try to be nice to people...you might get it in return.

Of course it does. Do we really need another diesel vs. gas thread. How many years have guys been arguing over it? Don't people know how to use the search feature and do their own research? Have to poke fun at that. I mean gee-bus...will it never end?

And the biggest question...Do you really need to argue the same thing over and over again???

I'm done side-tracking this thread and I'm done engaging you on this.
Awesome!

Finally admitting that you don't have much experience of hauling and towing heavy to give out advice...
 
#50
I went with the V10 in my SMB van. My van weighs about 9,500 lbs and the motor has plenty of power for what I do. I don't tow anything yet and have no plans to do so with the van.

The V10 and the transmission used with it have proven to be super reliable and there and enough fleet vehicles out there that use them I expect that parts will be available for them for quite some time. I do wish that my mpg was better since I average around 9. If I kept it under 70 on the highways that would improve.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk
 
#51
If you plan to cross the border, ULSD isn't available much in Mexico and beyond. Newer diesels "require" it.

Diesels are noisy. My gas van is virtually silent. Seriously. People ask if it's electric. We're talking about a 1989 Ford, not a new hybrid or anything. It's just a well tuned 4.9 with a larger than stock muffler.

Diesels are expensive to repair. The most expensive thing under my hood is probably the ECM ($100) or my upgraded alternators ($85 x 2) or my upgraded starter ($65) or distributor ($55). That all totals $390. That $ won't buy 2 of the cheapest injectors RockAuto lists for a 7.3PSD van.

Diesels are expensive to maintain. My oil change is $29.99 at JiffyLube. A 7.3PSD is $129.99. Literally $100 difference. PSD oil changes are at 7,500 miles. Mine are 3,000. In 100k miles, I need 34 oil changes but the diesel only needs 14. The diesel still costs another $1,400 to go the same distance, just in oil changes. Now, I don't take my van to Jiffy Lube (just my company truck, they pay) and there are surely cheaper places to go but it's an apples-to-apples comparison.

Diesels can get better mileage than comparable gas burners. I get 17 hwy. A 7.3 PSD isn't gonna beat that by much. Let's say it gets 20. (My 7.3 CC DRW gets 17 tops) Let's say gas is $2.00/gal and diesel is 20% more. The $ changes but the % is pretty steady. $11,764 gets my gasser to 100k miles. The diesel does it for $11,000 even, or 6.9% less. Now, consider the $1,400 overage on oil changes and that 764 seems like an even smaller margin of victory.

Between maintenance and fuel mileage, a diesel might do so well as to break even. Throw in just one repair though and there's just no way. This isn't even respective of differences in purchase price, insurance, or the added wear and tear all the weight of a diesel causes.

My van suits me. A diesel wouldn't suit me any better. Nuff said.
 
#52
If you plan to cross the border, ULSD isn't available much in Mexico and beyond. Newer diesels "require" it.

Diesels are noisy. My gas van is virtually silent. Seriously. People ask if it's electric. We're talking about a 1989 Ford, not a new hybrid or anything. It's just a well tuned 4.9 with a larger than stock muffler.

Diesels are expensive to repair. The most expensive thing under my hood is probably the ECM ($100) or my upgraded alternators ($85 x 2) or my upgraded starter ($65) or distributor ($55). That all totals $390. That $ won't buy 2 of the cheapest injectors RockAuto lists for a 7.3PSD van.

Diesels are expensive to maintain. My oil change is $29.99 at JiffyLube. A 7.3PSD is $129.99. Literally $100 difference. PSD oil changes are at 7,500 miles. Mine are 3,000. In 100k miles, I need 34 oil changes but the diesel only needs 14. The diesel still costs another $1,400 to go the same distance, just in oil changes. Now, I don't take my van to Jiffy Lube (just my company truck, they pay) and there are surely cheaper places to go but it's an apples-to-apples comparison.

Diesels can get better mileage than comparable gas burners. I get 17 hwy. A 7.3 PSD isn't gonna beat that by much. Let's say it gets 20. (My 7.3 CC DRW gets 17 tops) Let's say gas is $2.00/gal and diesel is 20% more. The $ changes but the % is pretty steady. $11,764 gets my gasser to 100k miles. The diesel does it for $11,000 even, or 6.9% less. Now, consider the $1,400 overage on oil changes and that 764 seems like an even smaller margin of victory.

Between maintenance and fuel mileage, a diesel might do so well as to break even. Throw in just one repair though and there's just no way. This isn't even respective of differences in purchase price, insurance, or the added wear and tear all the weight of a diesel causes.

My van suits me. A diesel wouldn't suit me any better. Nuff said.

the 7.3 van will hold its value, maybe even sell for more than you paid. Can’t say that with a gasser. Also, all that stuff you mentioned that is more expensive is because they are heavy duty and last 200k + miles or are the same parts in a gasser van. That’s why they are more expensive. My injectors look new with 200k on them. A diesel van might get 17mpg but a v10 is not getting anything close to that, no way. 4.9 is not even a comparison, can’t haul much, can’t climb, can’t tow much, and will need to be rebuilt 10 times to one 7.3. You are basically comparing a light duty to a heavy duty. The 7.3 will need to be fixed once and will go another 200k miles and then another 200k.

Bottomline, if you can afford a 7.3 your pocket book will be better off in the end. Better resale, better range, more dependable, and you can bring what ever you want and not even sweat a mountain pass.
 
#53
the 7.3 van will hold its value, maybe even sell for more than you paid. Can’t say that with a gasser. Also, all that stuff you mentioned that is more expensive is because they are heavy duty and last 200k + miles or are the same parts in a gasser van. That’s why they are more expensive. My injectors look new with 200k on them. A diesel van might get 17mpg but a v10 is not getting anything close to that, no way. 4.9 is not even a comparison, can’t haul much, can’t climb, can’t tow much, and will need to be rebuilt 10 times to one 7.3. You are basically comparing a light duty to a heavy duty. The 7.3 will need to be fixed once and will go another 200k miles and then another 200k.

Bottomline, if you can afford a 7.3 your pocket book will be better off in the end. Better resale, better range, more dependable, and you can bring what ever you want and not even sweat a mountain pass.

The 4.9 is actually quite heavy duty. It was the engine in UPS delivery trucks for 20 years. It was in F-6 dump trucks, airport tugs, stationary powerplants...basically applications the 5.9 Cummins took over in the 90s. They're commonly found with 250-350k miles running well. Without being rebuilt. They're low-rpm tractor-like engines that were in everything from F100s-F600s but only ever in trucks and vans, never a car engine because it's they're too big. They have no timing belt or chain, just gears. They have 7 main bearings but only 6 cylinders so they're actually more overbuilt than a PSD. They were made from 1965-1996. That MASS production is why engine parts are cheap. It's also why they're great engines, because Ford got really good at making them over 30 years.

Can't haul much? Can't tow? Sounds like you have little or no experience with this engine. I have both 4.9 and 7.3s in the driveway along with tractors, dozer, backhoe, 4 campers, cargo trailers... I've made them both work hard. The 7.3 is faster but it's more expensive. Period.
 
#54
The 4.9 is actually quite heavy duty. It was the engine in UPS delivery trucks for 20 years. It was in F-6 dump trucks, airport tugs, stationary powerplants...basically applications the 5.9 Cummins took over in the 90s. They're commonly found with 250-350k miles running well. Without being rebuilt. They're low-rpm tractor-like engines that were in everything from F100s-F600s but only ever in trucks and vans, never a car engine because it's they're too big. They have no timing belt or chain, just gears. They have 7 main bearings but only 6 cylinders so they're actually more overbuilt than a PSD. They were made from 1965-1996. That MASS production is why engine parts are cheap. It's also why they're great engines, because Ford got really good at making them over 30 years.

Can't haul much? Can't tow? Sounds like you have little or no experience with this engine. I have both 4.9 and 7.3s in the driveway along with tractors, dozer, backhoe, 4 campers, cargo trailers... I've made them both work hard. The 7.3 is faster but it's more expensive. Period.

I did a road trip in a 4.9 campervan and it was a dog. Could not get to 80mph (Utah speed limit) without a tailwind or downhill let alone do the speed limit on the up hill stretches. Towing something would be awfully slow and probably dangerously slow on the open road. Sure, a ups truck that never goes over 40mph makes since for a 4.9 but not for a overland vehicle that needs to cover some ground. Ever been passed by a UPS truck, dozer, backhoe, airport tug, dump truck or cargo trailer in your 7.3? 7.3 is faster and more efficient for that kind of driving which is why it’s is waaay more expensive than a 4.9. It is more expensive, no one argues that, it is more expensive because it can do more. When the day comes to sell, you will actually have something of value rather than scrap metal.
 
#55
I did a road trip in a 4.9 campervan and it was a dog. Could not get to 80mph (Utah speed limit) without a tailwind or downhill let alone do the speed limit on the up hill stretches. Towing something would be awfully slow and probably dangerously slow on the open road. Sure, a ups truck that never goes over 40mph makes since for a 4.9 but not for a overland vehicle that needs to cover some ground. Ever been passed by a UPS truck, dozer, backhoe, airport tug, dump truck or cargo trailer in your 7.3? 7.3 is faster and more efficient for that kind of driving which is why it’s is waaay more expensive than a 4.9. It is more expensive, no one argues that, it is more expensive because it can do more. When the day comes to sell, you will actually have something of value rather than scrap metal.
My 4.9 nice van weighs 7k. Runs 80 easy with the C6. My 4.9 junker is way faster with its M5OD. I bought it to swap the transmissions.

The thread is about gas vs diesel for camping and general purpose, not towing my backhoe. Selling a van isn't camping. The general purpose of me buying my van wasn't to sell it. My estate will sell it after I'm gone cuz I never will.
 
#56
My 4.9 nice van weighs 7k. Runs 80 easy with the C6. My 4.9 junker is way faster with its M5OD. I bought it to swap the transmissions.

The thread is about gas vs diesel for camping and general purpose, not towing my backhoe. Selling a van isn't camping. The general purpose of me buying my van wasn't to sell it. My estate will sell it after I'm gone cuz I never will.

The OP referenced towing I’m pretty sure he wasn’t talking about pushing airplanes around the tarmac, which a diesel would also do better. Most people don’t keep their vehicles forever and consider resale when buying. I’m sure the 4.9 works great for what you do but my opinion is that the OP would be better off with a diesel or v10. Diesel would be better which is why they cost more.
 
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