Dual battery install: DONE! - Uh, Sort of...

Martinjmpr

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
BTW I just went back out, started the truck and let it run for a few minutes, then checked voltage. Difference between the two batteries is within .02 - .05v (for example if it showed 14.24 on starter battery it would be 14.19 - 14.22 on the house battery.) I'm assuming that .01 - .05v difference is probably not a cause for concern?
.
I also noted that the voltage would fluctuate no matter which battery I was on. Not large, but it would go from say 14.33 down to 14.31 and back up to 14.34, then a few minutes later down to 14.21 - 14.25. After a few minutes it settled down to about 14.17, but again the difference between the two batteries was never more than .01 - .05.
.
FWIW my truck has the 145a alternator (according to the codes in the glove box.)
 
dwh

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Martinjmpr said:
BTW I just went back out, started the truck and let it run for a few minutes, then checked voltage. Difference between the two batteries is within .02 - .05v (for example if it showed 14.24 on starter battery it would be 14.19 - 14.22 on the house battery.) I'm assuming that .01 - .05v difference is probably not a cause for concern?
.
I also noted that the voltage would fluctuate no matter which battery I was on. Not large, but it would go from say 14.33 down to 14.31 and back up to 14.34, then a few minutes later down to 14.21 - 14.25. After a few minutes it settled down to about 14.17, but again the difference between the two batteries was never more than .01 - .05.
.
FWIW my truck has the 145a alternator (according to the codes in the glove box.)
Click to expand...

It's good to go. Modern GM vehicle, computer controlled voltage regulator, maybe a bit of temperature compensation going on. Expect it to fluctuate some.

As for the tiny differences in voltage, not enough to make any difference.
 
Jelorian

Jelorian

Adventurer
DaveInDenver said:
I'd stop driving immediately and take a bus to a life insurance salesman personally.
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dwh said:
I was gonna suggest holy water and a crucifix, but this'll work too.
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If my setup is really a ticking time bomb then all you guys had so say was something along the lines of, "Jelorian, in all seriousness, your soldered lugs are doing to fail with disastrous results and we suggest that you don't drive your vehicle until you swap out your soldered lugs for crimped ones."

I'm just learning like everyone else and if my install is wrong or faulty, I'd definitely want to know. However trying to guess if you guys are serious or not doesn't help me out. Feel free to PM me so Martin doesn't feel like I'm thread crapping.
 
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dwh

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Just kidding Jelorian.

There's always a way to make something better. In the meantime...

"Run what ya brung."
 
4x4junkie

4x4junkie

Explorer
DaveInDenver said:
Soldering makes the joint rigid and introduces heat which can cause insulation become stiff or break during the work. The insulation cracking is dealt with by the shrink but the mechanically rigid connection remains a problem with vibration since it starts to develop fractures.

When this happens the resistance starts to creep higher, which on high current paths creates heat. If allowed to continue long enough the connection resistance can increase enough that under heavy loads (starting, winching, jump starting, very high current situations) the temperature can rise enough to reflow the solder and allow the cable to fall out of the terminal.
Click to expand...


In the 30+ years I have been soldering connections, I can't recall anything even remotely resembling that ever happening. If there was anything to make my wires fracture, develop resistance, heat up and fall off like that, it would be the tens of 1000's of miles of washboarded roads I've traveled at 50+ MPH (instead it's been worn-out shocks and fractured shock mounts I've had to deal with). I've said it before in other threads here, this is an example of internet folklore running amok. Provided your wiring is properly secured (not left hanging around all over the place), there should be no good reason for a properly soldered connection to come apart under any normal circumstance. Perhaps if this was all started by someone trying to solder a lug onto #2AWG using a 30-watt pencil iron, then maybe they deserved what they got.
FWIW, there are many things that "can happen" to a crimped connection too.

Jelorian said:
Thanks for that link. Since I soldered mine originally, I will probably swap my cables out for crimped terminals in the future. In a vehicle that is subject to lots of vibration, I can see where a mechanical crimp would be superior to a soldered one.

Cheers!

Jel
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Assuming you soldered them well, there shouldn't be any reason to change anything with your cables. A properly soldered connection actually bonds (fuses) the connection together through alloying of the metals. Soldered connections will also remain reliably air & weather-tight over time. If soldering was as bad as the internet makes it out to be, your vehicle would crap out from the vibrations each time you hit a pothole in the road (it's probably interesting to note that the "brain" of (even semi)-modern fuel-injected vehicles are comprised of hundreds, if not thousands of soldered connections ;) ).

So I would also say to the OP, you can solder those vise-crimped cables, they should be fine as long as you did put the wire all the way deep into the connector. The solder pellet method mentioned earlier is a nice simple way to do it, though since you've already smashed them, you'll need to use regular 60/40 wire solder instead (wire solder is generally what I use anyway).
 
4x4junkie

4x4junkie

Explorer
DaveInDenver said:
That is the key, isn't it.
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Indeed it is. Clean materials always make better, more reliable connections. This is no different for soldered or crimped connections, so I'm not sure what you're getting at as far as that goes... I have dissected many of the soldered connections I've done and there were no voids and all the strands were fully bonded. Yes, it takes longer to do, but #1., no $180 tool is needed, and #2., you only need to make up a set of cables once per project (which for many may make that $180 a poor investment). Obviously it's different if you are in the business of manufacturing goods and need to turn stuff out on a timely basis... However I suspect for the vast majority of people here, projects like these are personal endeavors.

Also, I didn't mean to imply I had singled you out, however many others before you with the same folklore have implied failure would be imminent, so is why I brought it up. Funnily, it rarely gets mentioned in these discussions that only ONE type of crimp may be worth a damn, which is one that's compressed 360° around the connector (for which the tool costs $180). I can't tell you how many different types of crimped connections I've actually had develop resistance (even catching fire in a couple cases), however I also didn't pay enough attention to whether any of them were 360° crimps, so for now I've conceded that 360° crimps could be worthwhile, though I still don't see them as better than soldered (simply because I've had 0 failures with soldered, so it's tough to be 'better' than that).


Indeed I have stocked up big time on 60/40 & 63/37 solders. RoHS appears very deleterious to the home electrical hobbyist. I haven't done that much soldering yet using the lead-free solders, but the limited amount of experience I do have has shown it doesn't flow as well, and requires MUCH more heat. I will cross the RoHS bridge after my other options have run out. For now, 60/40 solders still seem as available as they always have been here in the US.
 
rayra

rayra

Expedition Leader
4x4junkie said:
In the 30+ years I have been soldering connections, I can't recall anything even remotely resembling that ever happening. If there was anything to make my wires fracture, develop resistance, heat up and fall off like that, it would be the tens of 1000's of miles of washboarded roads I've traveled at 50+ MPH (instead it's been worn-out shocks and fractured shock mounts I've had to deal with). I've said it before in other threads here, this is an example of internet folklore running amok. Provided your wiring is properly secured (not left hanging around all over the place), there should be no good reason for a properly soldered connection to come apart under any normal circumstance. Perhaps if this was all started by someone trying to solder a lug onto #2AWG using a 30-watt pencil iron, then maybe they deserved what they got.
FWIW, there are many things that "can happen" to a crimped connection too.

....
Click to expand...

Hear hear. It's what I've called elsewhere the difference between book-learning / rote recitation and practical experience. Is what Dave described in the wide realm of possible, yes. Is it probable, Hell No.
I see this kind of thing on gun forums all the time. Particularly reloading discussions. Folks repeating lore and possibilities that experience show are just bunk.
It's one of the biggest problems on internet forums.
Followed by 'experts' that sow mocking doubt instead of assistance, which you can see plenty of in my own dual-battery / electrical upgrades topic - http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...ucture-seeking-inputs-on-my-inputs-and-ouputs

The soldering of the lug connectors onto my own cables took very little time at all. I sized and appropriately stripped my cables, set my lugs cup end up in my bench vise and positioned my cabling so the bared end was suspended near the connector. I clipped several pieces of solder into the connector, roughly filling it with loose cuttings. Fired up my propane torch and hit the connector until the solder was liquified and slightly smoking, the copper lug just starting to discolor, then hit my bare cable end for a short bit to heat it up (but not enough to melt the insulation, then eased the cable into the cup, while keeping heat on the cup, until it was fully seated. I wore heavy gloves, no discomfort or exposure, kept the cable seated with the same hand as the solder cooled enough to hold fast, while shutting the torch down with the other. Less than a minute later I released the vise and set the cable on the garage floor to fully cool while I got set up for my next fitting. I did all six ends of my cables in 20-25mins. Pretty easy if you set it up as a batch process and pay enough attention to safety and your workspace so you don't run into trouble with hot things and unwieldy cable.

Jelorian, you don't need to re-do your stuff. The only area of heightened concern will be if you intend to run a heavy extended drain on those batteries powering a heavy winch. In which case the 360-ded crimp 4x4junkie refers to would be desirable. And I myself would STILL solder it. I'd rather fill any voids I can with solder to bar any entry of air or water. Even is using adhesive heat shrink. Belt and suspenders.

And btw, the 6-sided hydraulic crimping tool at Harbor Freight for $50 works great, by most anecdotal field reports.
 
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Joe917

Joe917

Explorer
rayra said:
Hear hear. It's what I've called elsewhere the difference between book-learning / rote recitation and practical experience. Is what Dave described in the wide realm of possible, yes. Is it probable, Hell No.
I see this kind of thing on gun forums all the time. Particularly reloading discussions. Folks repeating lore and possibilities that experience show are just bunk.
It's one of the biggest problems on internet forums.
Click to expand...

Narrow minded, it never happened to me so it doesn't happen.
 
4x4junkie

4x4junkie

Explorer
********


FWIW, I've seen numerous complaints that the dies for that $50 HF crimper are all sized wrong, so you'd need to experiment (wasting several lugs) to find which one is actually the correct size for a particular gauge wire & lug-type combo. Once you've figured that out it apparently works acceptably. I'd sooner just keep doing what I've been doing than waste $50 plus another $20 or so in lugs & wire.
I've pulled hundreds of amps with the winch through my wiring many times without issue.
 
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