Ecodiesel as a short-distance commuter? Issues?

[Martinjmpr]

I didn't want to clutter up MalibuBT's thread about his 2015 Ecodiesel Ram 1500 but I'm wondering something WRT small diesels:

I know diesels do well on long hauls, but are there any concerns for short distance commuters? My commute is only 10 miles each way, 3x per week (I work from home the other 2 days.) If I'm only starting up the truck, driving it 10 miles (25 - 30 minutes, depending on traffic) and then letting it sit for the day, is that likely to cause issues with excessive wear, oil consumption, etc? My concern is that especially on very cold days the engine might not get up to full operating temp for long enough to burn off any water in the fuel and that could lead to excessive sludging or other issues. Is this a real concern and if so is there a way to mitigate it? More frequent oil changes?

I'm still not convinced a diesel would work for me but the MPG figures and the additional range are tempting, as are the great torque numbers (420 lb/ft for the 3.0 Ecodiesel, which is better than the 5.7 Hemi.)

 

[PhulesAU]

Unless your trips are all in the Summer......
You won't be getting the motor hot enough to get rid of moisture that normally accumulates. It's a small amount but it is there.

 

[Buliwyf]

Yes.

Short distance commuter = gasoline. Diesel is a bad idea. My truck has the same issue. I only need diesel power twice a year. The rest of the time, gasoline is superior in every way. (Getting Pizza at 9pm with 4 feet of snow on the ground, trip time less than 15 min) So I went gas, and love the ease of it, every week.

Water in oil can freeze up the PCV system and get nasty quick, even on gas engines. But gas engines get warm enough in just a half hour usually to mitigate that. Diesels don't. And your commute time is less than a regen cycle, so......

 

[warrpath4x4]

ya you wont even be in it long enough for the regen cycle, which in turn your DPF/after treatment will plug up and create more issues.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

If you really want a diesel, you could just move...

 

[Hummelator]

When I bought my Cummins, I was talking to one of the head techs at the dealership and he was saying that the guys who worked their engines hard didn't have nearly as many issues as the folks who use their diesel trucks to go to the grocery store. If I had to guess, I would say that applies to more than the Cummins... and it seems that your scenario would fall into the latter situation.
Regaurless, in your situation I would go gasser. Unless you want a diesel for no other reason than wanting a diesel, then give 'er.

 

[malibubts]

Might as well jump in here as well, but don't worry about cluttering my thread up!

I'd agree at 10 miles you'd be pushing it dependent on your winters. My commute is about 20 miles and I don't have any issues getting up to operating temperature. Sure a longer commute might be more beneficial, but I have seen no issues so far. It's also going to depend on how much you're driving outside your normal commute. At 3x a week it'd be possible if your stretching its legs on the weekends.

That said I do run a block heater as a precaution. I believe the manual states there's no need until -20, but I usually run it once it starts consistently getting in the low 30s. Kicking that on every morning for a couple hours also speeds up the time it takes for me to get to operating temp.

The regen cycle is also in the range of 8-10 miles, you'd need to get out and stretch every 100 or so miles of city driving to complete a cycle. For what it's worth I can get a cycle in on my commute, finishing up just a mile or two before work.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Thanks for all the input folks. Much as I am tempted by the great MPG figures offered by the diesel I think an honest and realistic assessment of my intended uses would lead me to go with a gasoline engine over the eco diesel. The diesel would probably be great on long trips pulling the trailer but anything I get also has to be able to haul my butt to and from work 3 days a week and drive on short-distance trips around town, and that's likely to be where a majority of the miles would be.

I suppose the next big dilemma for me would be whether to go for something like the F-150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost or the less complex and more tried-and-true 5.0 (Ford) or 5.7 (Dodge) gassers. For pulling our trailer I'm leaning towards the V8, even though I know the 3.5 produces more HP and torque, just because I've never owned a turbocharged vehicle before and my biggest worry is that if something goes wrong with the turbo it would be a very expensive fix. The other reason I'd favor the V8 over the twin turbo V6 is that the V6 seems to offer no real benefit in MPG (in fact, most of what I've read shows the 5.0 V8 getting better MPG than the ecoboost) and only a moderate increase in power so to me the tradeoff wouldn't be worth it. But I'd really have to drive both to see which one I liked better.

 

[Buliwyf]

The 5.0 F150 is far faster, than an F150 has any right going. I'd go with the cheaper, easier, 5.0.

Get as much gear as available. Or be prepared to regear if you go with larger tires. And don't overlook that an 6.2L F250 costs less than an F150 fairly often.

 

[Dalko43]

I'd agree at 10 miles you'd be pushing it dependent on your winters. My commute is about 20 miles and I don't have any issues getting up to operating temperature. Sure a longer commute might be more beneficial, but I have seen no issues so far. It's also going to depend on how much you're driving outside your normal commute.

@malibubts, I had heard the 3.0l ecodiesel takes longer to warm up as compared to other diesels (mostly referring to the 3/4 ton's). Have you found this to be true?

@Martinjmpr: FWIW, OEM's put out smaller displacement diesels (2.8l in the Colorado and 3.0l in the Ram and F-150). I have not heard any of them list restrictions on how short the commute can be. These newer SCR-laden systems are designed to operate more effectively and more efficiently in realistic traffic/commute conditions as compared to the older (post 2007) diesels.

If you were only to use that Ram ecodiesel to commute 10 miles everyday for its entire life, then yes I could see problems occurring. If you go out on longer drives at least 2x-3x per month (which is likely if you're into overlanding) then I don't see why you would have any problems. As @malibubts said, you just need to 'stretch' the diesel's legs every once in a while to work the engine and enable to DPF to regenerate (passively or actively). Assuming you will drive longer distances every so often, the DPF and engine will take care of itself. The OEM's designed these newer diesels with the understanding that they wouldn't all be towing/hauling on highway trips 100% of the time.

And just FYI, plenty of European-designed diesels are used for short-range, daily commutes without much issue.

 

[Buliwyf]

The OEM's designed the diesels any way they could. How it pans out in the real world is another story. The 6.0 for example, was tortured before it's release. As usual, those engineering tests are nearly useless. Noone expected it to be made of glass.

People are banging on their door for a bad idea they don't need. Nothing new (BMW X3, X5 for example). I wouldn't accept anything the eng's or marketing says.

The foreign diesels, that I saw, lack emmisions controls. They were like the original Cummins 4bt3.9, but smaller like a Yanmar.

 

[Martinjmpr]

@Martinjmpr: FWIW, OEM's put out smaller displacement diesels (2.8l in the Colorado and 3.0l in the Ram and F-150). I have not heard any of them list restrictions on how short the commute can be. These newer SCR-laden systems are designed to operate more effectively and more efficiently in realistic traffic/commute conditions as compared to the older (post 2007) diesels.

If you were only to use that Ram ecodiesel to commute 10 miles everyday for its entire life, then yes I could see problems occurring. If you go out on longer drives at least 2x-3x per month (which is likely if you're into overlanding) then I don't see why you would have any problems. As @malibubts said, you just need to 'stretch' the diesel's legs every once in a while to work the engine and enable to DPF to regenerate (passively or actively). Assuming you will drive longer distances every so often, the DPF and engine will take care of itself. The OEM's designed these newer diesels with the understanding that they wouldn't all be towing/hauling on highway trips 100% of the time.
.

Sure, and I understand that but from my viewpoint, it's a question of "the right tool for the job." Unless I NEEDED a diesel for some reason OTHER than MPG, it would seem that given my low annual mileage of 11,000, and my short commute, that tips the scales towards the gasser.

It's not so much that the diesel is the WRONG tool but rather that for my usage, a gasser is a BETTER tool to accomplish the same thing.

 

[Martinjmpr]

@Martinjmpr: FWIW, OEM's put out smaller displacement diesels (2.8l in the Colorado and 3.0l in the Ram and F-150). I have not heard any of them list restrictions on how short the commute can be. These newer SCR-laden systems are designed to operate more effectively and more efficiently in realistic traffic/commute conditions as compared to the older (post 2007) diesels.

If you were only to use that Ram ecodiesel to commute 10 miles everyday for its entire life, then yes I could see problems occurring. If you go out on longer drives at least 2x-3x per month (which is likely if you're into overlanding) then I don't see why you would have any problems. As @malibubts said, you just need to 'stretch' the diesel's legs every once in a while to work the engine and enable to DPF to regenerate (passively or actively). Assuming you will drive longer distances every so often, the DPF and engine will take care of itself. The OEM's designed these newer diesels with the understanding that they wouldn't all be towing/hauling on highway trips 100% of the time.
.

Sure, and I understand that but from my viewpoint, it's a question of "the right tool for the job." Unless I NEEDED a diesel for some reason OTHER than MPG, it would seem that given my low annual mileage of 11,000, and my short commute, that tips the scales towards the gasser.

It's not so much that the diesel is the WRONG tool but rather that for my usage, a gasser is a BETTER tool to accomplish the same thing.

 

[Dalko43]

Sure, and I understand that but from my viewpoint, it's a question of "the right tool for the job." Unless I NEEDED a diesel for some reason OTHER than MPG, it would seem that given my low annual mileage of 11,000, and my short commute, that tips the scales towards the gasser.

It's not so much that the diesel is the WRONG tool but rather that for my usage, a gasser is a BETTER tool to accomplish the same thing.

No disagreement from me on that issue. If you're primarily focused on short-range commuting w/ low annual mileage, the gasoline will work very well.

I'm pointing out that the diesel will not be a problem in such driving conditions, so long as you get it on the highway every once in a while.

The OEM's designed the diesels any way they could. How it pans out in the real world is another story. The 6.0 for example, was tortured before it's release.

Ford obviously didn't torture the 6.0 enough. Ford dropped the ball when it came to developing that engine, and they never offered a true fix for the problem, which was another dropped ball on their part.

The foreign diesels, that I saw, lack emmisions controls. They were like the original Cummins 4bt3.9, but smaller like a Yanmar.

Older ones don't. The newer ones do. DPF's and EGR's are quite common on new diesels in the developed markets, even Toyota is employing those devices. Plenty of people use those diesels for commuter duties (despite the fallout from the VW scandal, diesel still accounts for a significant portion of the overseas auto market); those engines seem to be working relatively well.

 

[VoodooCLD]

I don't understand the better MPG with diesel argument. Sure they get a little better than their gas counter-part, but the fuel seems to be quite a bit more expensive. Doesn't that even itself out?