Electric or Hydraulic winch?

Pskhaat

2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
If I could reasonably get a PTO winch I would. In it's stead I have the option of electric or hydraulic. Can anyone comment why I wouldn't want to go the hydraulic route?

As with a PTO, I don't generally expect to have a stopped engine during winching procedures.
 

ShearPin

Adventurer
Fluid Power

In my experience electric is perfect for sporadic recovery use. Heat is your enemy in long repeated pulls and thermal switchs protecting the winch motor will shut it off. My brothers Warn M12000 on his H1 is fully boxed in its mount and GVW on his truck is up around 11,000 loaded with diesel, water etc. It has a tendancy to trip off on long heavy pulls. Simply a matter of waiting to cool. For my Series III "Eore" used for long range trips - heavily laden but not "hard core terrain" - my Warn 8000 has been a passenger the majority of the time but without fault when needed. Get a decent capacity - 1.5 times loaded vehicle weight.

Regarding hydraulic, I've heard a lot of complaints regarding the Mile Marker hydraulic winch from Hummer and Land Rover owners. In my opinion these are not reaching their full potential due to installs splicing into hydraulic steering systems not designed to run a winch. For these to work you need a proper reservoir of fluid holding enough to keep it cool - and a good pump rated for the winch PSI. My Brothers Unimog 416 has a Warn 30,000 pound hydraulic on front and a Mile Marker 10,000 rear - fluid power. I have seen that mile marker pull, and pull, and pull. It will yank the mog from a bog then work the rest of the afternoon pulling others out. The Warn 30,000 is a beast. Lots of fluid and a dedicated hydraulic implement running system.

For my needs - electric has been fine. In my opinion, if you expect to do repeated winch pulls all day recovering yourself and heavily laden others hydraulic may be your answer. Though it is complicated and expensive to set it up right.

Henry
 

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Pskhaat

2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
Great feedback! I will be installing this into an FZJ80 and the Toyota 1FZ-FE engine has an engine/block powered hydraulic pump. What pressure/volume it is I couldn't find on a cursory look.

Definetely sporatic use. I generally want the `best' without sacrificing drivabilty/reliability but costs seem to be similar here.
 

AndrewP

Explorer
Scott-I seem to remember the Toyota pressure output is a little low for use in a hydraulic winch. I'm sure it will work, just slow and not at rated capacity. Unless you plan to winch for a living, I think an electric will serve you well. You really don't need a winch that often, and usually it's for the other guy, not you. I would reccomend an M12000 like I have unless you have special needs.

I also just got an 8274 for my FJ40 that I'm pretty stoked about.
 

david despain

Adventurer
boxers or briefs

luckily the folks on this board are quite civil and polite. some of the other boards i frequent this very same question will inevitably turn into a serious battle :ar15: :sport_box :gunt: where its best to just sit back and watch as hilarity ensues. :coffee: but if you can stand to wade throught the train wreck of web bashing and flames there are a few nuggets of info i have gleamed, probably chief among them is there is no right answer, only what will work best for you. what type of pulls do u foresee? are you ever by your self? how is your rig currently set up ie. dual batts or hyd steering (rock ram) etc etc. here are some things i have observed.... hyd will pull all day and not skip a beat IF you have proper flow and press and cooling and can keep the eng running. i have only ever heard of one person with an electric powered hyd pump as a backup should the eng not be able to run. elec is probably easier & cheaper to do correctly, more common, and probably most importantly will work when the eng is not or wont run and typically has a faster line speed. but they both have pros and cons. i think one thing to keep in mind is that while it is important, pressure is only the ABILITY to do work, it is the flow rate that get the work done. granted with out good pressure you wont be going anywhere at all, but everyone touts the press ratings of this and that but hardly anybody ever lists the flow ratings. (this is also a giant pet peeve of mine regarding air compressors and tools but lest i digress. ) i think they both have their place in life, its not a coincidence that tractors and tow trucks and airplanes (thats where i get my experince from) use hyd extensively and that most off road stuff uses electric. anyway these are just a few thoughts on the matter and all this from a guy with no winch so take it for what ever thats worth.

http://www.expeditionexchange.com/deathvalley3/ here are some pics where a hyd winch would leave you stranded if you were by yourself http://www.expeditionexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=447 and some story
 
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bigreen505

Expedition Leader
I'll post another side. Now, bear in mind all I know are Pathfinders, but in the Nissan world the Mile Marker hydraulics are generally the prefered way to go. The MM 10,500 pound hydraulic winch (that's the actual name) was actually developed to work with the reduced power steering pressure in Nissan trucks, so I doubt you will have any problem on the Cruisers, and I think the 12,000 lb. winch is similar -- no need to upgrade your hydraulic system/power steering system at all.

Advantages of hydraulic winchs are they don't require you to beef up the electrical system (extra batteries, big alternator, heavy gauge wires, etc.), don't run hot/overheat and you can use them constantly all day long without a complaint from the winch, and can be used under water. Disadvantages are if the car is dead the winch is too, they are slower than electric winches and there is more of a need to install carefully.

I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer, it really is dependant on how you plan to use it. I think if I were planing to travel solo I might be more inclined to go electric since it will work (albeit for a very short period) on a dead truck, and for groups I would go hydraulic because there will be other people who can help if you need a quick winch, but not likely other people with hydraulics if there is a need to winch for an extended period of time.
 

Pskhaat

2005 Expedition Trophy Champion
Ahh the delima! Well, I am out there often alone with the Family, but rarely that far out; I wait for groups for that fun. I do have dual electrical systems in my LC80 now and could plumb the winch to the auxilliary deep-cycle battery.

Though my year LC80 has a non-accessorized fluid pump in the engine block, I get excited and keep thinking I'd install an extra PS pump that powered just winches but then I have to look at TCO and somewhere know that electric is a cheaper sol'n considering other than my 8274 in my FJ40 from years ago, I have since not needed a winch. :eek:
 

madizell

Explorer
Either hydraulic or electric will generally do an adequate job, but either one has to be properly installed and supported to perform at an optimum. The best electric winch won't work well or for very long if it has only a 60 amp alternator and a single battery to support it. A hydraulic winch won't make enough power to pull a toy wagon if it does not have sufficient volume and pressure supplied from the pump.

Hydraulic only works when the engine is running, electric will work with the engine off, although not for long. There may be a time when all you need is 60 seconds of power to get out of trouble, but the engine won't start (deep water crossing and a drowned engine.) Here, an electric winch could get you out of the water where you could then deal with the engine problem. If you don't do deep water, it might not be an issue. This is also true of pto winches. I knew one vehicle with a tremendous pto winch driven by a 4 cylinder turbo diesel. The winch was so fast, it was unbelievable. The guy tipped his Cruiser over in shallow water, putting the intake snorkel under water. Even though the diesel would have run lying on its side, it couldn't because of the intake under water. He had to get someone else to pull him back on his wheels before he could start the engine. If he had been without help, he would have been in big trouble.

Most of the hydraulic winches I have seen which were not effective were running on a power steering pump along with the steering gear. A p/s pump will usually make sufficient pressure, but will not produce any volume, and without both, a 12,000 pound winch makes about 2,000 pounds of pull, and is so glacially slow as to defy description. All that happens is the fluid gets hot from being overworked. That, and everyone else in the group gets hot from having to stand and wait while the hydraulic guy dithers away the daylight.

On the other hand, I have seen hydraulic winches with industrial pumps dedicated to running just the winch, and these winches pulled so hard and fast that you had to get out of the way. The only winch I have seen run faster was a PTO winch.

So, if you want a hydraulic, I would suggest finding a good industrial pump rated to the pressure and volume needs of the winch so that it can perform at rated capacity. find a means of running the pump as an accessory on your engine. If you can run it through an electric clutch, like an a/c pump, even better.

Electric winches need proper power as well. I have operated the same 8274-50 for 6 years. Running on a 60 amp alternator and a single battery, I would quickly run voltage down to around 10 volts, say in 30 seconds or so. Even fried a CD player that I forgot to turn off while winching when the voltage dropped below 10 volts. Permanently DOA. With a 140 amp alternator and a single battery, I got another 30 seconds before everyting shut down. Stereo number two hit the dumpster.

Same winch on a 210 amp alternator and dual Optimas will pull all day long without a serious drop in performance. Longest series of pulls was a quarter mile up a 100% slope in about 35 minutes, with the only recharge times while the anchor point was being reset. This was during the 2002 Outback Challenge in Oz. Its hard to beat an 8274 when it is running right.

So, with proper support, either style of winch will do the job. Without proper support, neither will be satisfactory.
 

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