EP/OJ Staff, review this please...

Christophe Noel

Expedition Leader
#2
I assume when you say "staff" you're referring to the only one who rides a bike. LOL

I genuinely don't have any beef with e-bikes. I think they're pretty fun. This one kind of hurts my head. I can't decide if I like it or want to set it on fire.
 

Co-opski

Expedition Leader
#3
Rhino
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Apex
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Personally I think the Rhino is a better ebike that is set up like a mule with a steel truss fork and long tail cargo frame. The Apex looks like designers wanted to get a cover shot in Wired mag or hanging off the back of one of the Kardashian's Gelandenwagons. Having a Lauf on my fat bike I think they are completely inappropriate for a fat ebike. Shure it looks cool but it is better suited for light bumps and slower rides. The Wren fork would be a better upgrade for the Apex. The tires offered are something you would find on any Walmart fat bike and would offset any weight savings from the carbon thangles on that bike. A B+ or 29+ tire like the Dirt Wizard, Terrene McFly, or any of the offerings from Maxxis would be better suited for that bike.
 
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pugslyyy

Robinson Fuso
#4
I assume when you say "staff" you're referring to the only one who rides a bike. LOL

I genuinely don't have any beef with e-bikes. I think they're pretty fun. This one kind of hurts my head. I can't decide if I like it or want to set it on fire.
I had a chance to ride the 2 wheel drive UBCO at Expo East, including the motorcycle skills course. I can't speak for the luna, but the ubco is no joke with 2 driven wheel and 30mph top speed. It was helluva fun to just ride around in.
 

zimm

Expedition Leader
#5
Rhino
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Apex
View attachment 420175
Personally I think the Rhino is a better ebike that is set up like a mule with a steel truss fork and long tail cargo frame. The Apex looks like designers wanted to get a cover shot in Wired mag or hanging off the back of one of the Kardashian's Gelandenwagons. Having a Lauf on my fat bike I think they are completely inappropriate for a fat ebike. Shure it looks cool but it is better suited for light bumps and slower rides. The Wren fork would be a better upgrade for the Apex. The tires offered are something you would find on any Walmart fat bike and would offset any weight savings from the carbon thangles on that bike. A B+ or 29+ tire like the Dirt Wizard, Terrene McFly, or any of the offerings from Maxxis would be better suited for that bike.
you can put the wren on it for 200 bucks in the options.

the problem with the rino, is a 40mph bike without a suspension is going to be a tad choppy.

the apex's huge custom battery, light 60 pounds, 22" size, and pedal assist on a 2500w pretty much checks my boxes.
i doubt ill make the leap for this much cash, even if it is half the price of the competition. adding on a 1500w system to a real bike seems to make more sense. it keeps it modular, and makes upgrades possible, and if you want, you can ditch the electric toy and still have a real bike. a dedicated frame, is, well, dedicated.

its sorta spacy looking, but thats where large manufacturer bikes are headed anyway.
 

Co-opski

Expedition Leader
#6
you can put the wren on it for 200 bucks in the options.

the problem with the rino, is a 40mph bike without a suspension is going to be a tad choppy.

the apex's huge custom battery, light 60 pounds, 22" size, and pedal assist on a 2500w pretty much checks my boxes.
i doubt ill make the leap for this much cash, even if it is half the price of the competition. adding on a 1500w system to a real bike seems to make more sense. it keeps it modular, and makes upgrades possible, and if you want, you can ditch the electric toy and still have a real bike. a dedicated frame, is, well, dedicated.

its sorta spacy looking, but thats where large manufacturer bikes are headed anyway.
I would agree with you that the boxes you are checking the Apex is the bike. The Wren fork and the largest rotors and best disc brakes on the market is all that bike needs besides a real set of wheels and tires. I do think the + platform would be better suited then trying to push the limits of tires and rims with the fat bike platform. 40mph is Mach-loony on fat tires. I've rolled pretty fast on my fat bike on dirt roads coming down from the passes. If driving a 1963 VW Kombi on the Nurburgring is what you are looking experience wise ride fat, if you want the experience of a 2017 Porsche Panamera built for off-roading by Rauh-Welt the 27.5 plus wheels are what you want.
 

zimm

Expedition Leader
#7
I would agree with you that the boxes you are checking the Apex is the bike. The Wren fork and the largest rotors and best disc brakes on the market is all that bike needs besides a real set of wheels and tires. I do think the + platform would be better suited then trying to push the limits of tires and rims with the fat bike platform. 40mph is Mach-loony on fat tires. I've rolled pretty fast on my fat bike on dirt roads coming down from the passes. If driving a 1963 VW Kombi on the Nurburgring is what you are looking experience wise ride fat, if you want the experience of a 2017 Porsche Panamera built for off-roading by Rauh-Welt the 27.5 plus wheels are what you want.
see, now my thinking was, with all power one may as push the fatties if one one isnt going to use a bike like this https://lunacycle.com/roam-fusion/

i think a regular use of 3hp pushes the design of bike parts, so the 14speed internal hub, is a must have option. i would not trust standard cassette shifting to not end tragically at some point.
 

Co-opski

Expedition Leader
#8
Zim the thing with the fat tires are they are made thin for low psi and weight savings. If you push a fat tire is rolls in corners if tubeless they may burp. They kind of are the Icelandic trucks of the bike world, very low impact on soft surfaces but nothing that you would want to push through a corner. Even looking through the Luna website they do not offer much in a full sup. eBike with a gearbox. Most of their ebike mt bikes are adding the wheel drives to excising mt bikes, like Giant and KHS.
Specialized has an awesome S-works Turbo Levo FSR 6fattie but it is without the gearbox.https://www.specialized.com/us/en/men/bikes/turbo/menss-worksturbolevofsr6fattie29/129120
Trek has a mid-drive with the Bosch powerplant in the Powerfly7 FS https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/mountain-bikes/electric-mountain-bikes/powerfly-fs/powerfly-7-fs-plus/p/2932700-2018/?colorCode=black_grey
The most I can find are concept full suspension ebikes with gear boxes like this one from BMW. I'm not sure on all the links in the rear sup. but I'm also not a German engineer, I did hike with one on the Inca Trail once? It might be a nice back up to the GS.https://www.bikerumor.com/2015/07/30/bmw-helps-cook-up-belt-drive-full-suspension-hnf-heisenberg-xf1-ebike/

bmw ebike.jpg
 
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zimm

Expedition Leader
#9
i'm bet a tubed fattie can handle 40mph. psi isnt the primary design parameter on a bike tire, if it can take sharp rocks and 5; drops, it'll take 40mph.

lots of 40mph on the street would be expensive tire wear for dirt shoes. max psi at all times I would think.

compared to specialized, this is 4x power, 3x battery, full fattie and only 10 pounds more, at 4000 fewer bucks. take every option plus the extra battery, and youre even.

the issue is i want every option. if i rode a bike to work, instead of once a month, this would a no brainer.
 
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Co-opski

Expedition Leader
#10
Personally I believe if you are going to keep it fat, you should keep the tires on it that are pictured. Yes they are heavy and stiff but in no way I would run a modern fat bike tire that is as light and supple as the manufactures can make it. All long distance fatpackers and bike explorers that I've rolled with have had a fat tire fail at one time. Personally I've had beads blow out and sidewall tears. We all carry a sewing kit, gorilla tape and some other type of sealant to fix problems in the bush and get us back to the truck.
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I think if the Apex checks all your boxes it should be a go, I support all types of alternatives to our transportation model we currently have and see eBikes as a healthy choice for the community, environment and personal health. The Apex does offer quality parts making it a nice build. I do wish they would have put Nextie Wild Dragon wheels on it to give it even more of a stealth fighter look.
Wild-Dragon-Tri-Spoke-Wheelset-90mm-Fat-Bike-Carbon-Nextie-1-1000x1000.jpg
Personally having owned 5 fat bikes and ridden dozens of eBikes during demos events I like the Felt Outfitter for a workhorse.
Felt-outfitter-e-mtb-e-mountainbike-e-fatbike-efatbike-magazine-2015-2-780x520.jpg
and the Tern Vektron for commuting and travel.
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zimm

Expedition Leader
#11
the nexties are cool but 1300. maybe as an option. the whole thing would be batmobile.

im gravitating back towards an electric add on unit. the whole "dedicated frame" is a package commitment that hopefully pans out with integration.

the truck i travel and sleep in, is the same truck i take on the toughest offroad wheeling trails. i like one well thought out devise. im afraid, even if the apex 2500 watts works for 99% of my riding, i'll hop on someones 6000w Tangent, and stare longingly back at my 6000 dollar bike wanting more. ive had the same litspeed classic for 15 years, and i love it. i want that same love in an electric, but tech is moving faster than laptops in the early 2000's. i'm paralyzed.

i was looking for a used bucksaw carbon to slap a Tangent on, and i find myself back on craigslist every morning.
 

zimm

Expedition Leader
#12
https://electricbike-blog.com/

this reviewer seems to be the right mix of cyclist and ebike enthusiast for the review.

i would call it a fail.

1, i think the no link single pivot geometry they used created a carbon fiber walmart bike.
2, it doesnt need a stock controller with custom programming, it needs a custom controller, with more parameters and more sensitive inputs to make the power control "streetable". maybe even something as simple as 750/1500/2500w primary setting and a few programs within each. an electronic triple chainring, so to speak.

glad i waited for a review.