Full Size Expedition Vehicle Recovery Gear

[waveslider]

Thanks for the detailed response Grizzlyj, that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for. We hope to build our list of recovery necessities over time as we explore the limits of our rig in friendly waters and lower consequences. Your items will serve as a good reference.

I also think we are going to start with a rear winch out of the gate and then decide what makes sense for the front - if at all - owing to your comment about payload/value trade off. I have a good friend whose mantra sticks in my mind regularly: "Front winches are for helping other people get unstuck, rear winches are for helping get yourself unstuck"

The one thing that I never really found a great solution for in the Sportsmobile was snow. It was shocking how easy it was to get stuck and spin on the smallest patch of snow. Going uphill through a small drift that was even 30 feet long was not an option. Even maxtrax X 4 seemed powerless so that's something I want to figure out. Either by getting better using the maxtrax or some different sand ladder arrangement.

 

[s.e.charles]

... a bit stuck ...

isn't that like "a bit pregnant"?

 

[charlieaarons]

Thanks for the detailed response Grizzlyj, that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for. We hope to build our list of recovery necessities over time as we explore the limits of our rig in friendly waters and lower consequences. Your items will serve as a good reference.

I also think we are going to start with a rear winch out of the gate and then decide what makes sense for the front - if at all - owing to your comment about payload/value trade off. I have a good friend whose mantra sticks in my mind regularly: "Front winches are for helping other people get unstuck, rear winches are for helping get yourself unstuck"

The one thing that I never really found a great solution for in the Sportsmobile was snow. It was shocking how easy it was to get stuck and spin on the smallest patch of snow. Going uphill through a small drift that was even 30 feet long was not an option. Even maxtrax X 4 seemed powerless so that's something I want to figure out. Either by getting better using the maxtrax or some different sand ladder arrangement.

Do you have locking diffs?

 

[grizzlyj]

Since we always managed to get ourselves out maybe that doesn't really count as stuck at all? So a bit stuck seems reasonable?
Recovery gear seems less regulated with regard to definite minimum breaking strain than lifting gear. I've two types of lifting strop, one is a sling formed by many fibres within a protective sleeve. One the more typical type sold as a protective tree sling. One has a 5to1 safety rating, the other 7to1. The 30ton "recovery" strap I have doesn't have a breaking strain but is similarly sized to the above two. My opinion is the many fibres will give more of a cushion when pulled. But long and heavy duty isn't usually off the shelf.
But unless you mirror someone's actual military recovery procedure which probably requires armour if kinetics are used it's guesstimate.
Forward motion in deep snow probably requires chains or big lugs at least? A few years ago we drove to the last official ferry of the year from Iceland a day early because of deteriorating weather, and nearly all of that road was ice which I have not driven on very much. We didn't slip at all, but the memory of that downhill snow and ice on a long curving road is almost enough to push me into the mega bucks for even just a pair of chains to fit. But one use in three years driving??

 

[waveslider]

Do you have locking diffs?

The new vehicle will and my previous pickup didn't but boy it didn't seem to matter in the snow. The pickup I understand slipping since it was pretty light, but the SMB is far from what I would consider a lightweight vehicle. Do you have some wisdom to impart based on the answer?

But one use in three years driving??

Boy, that's the rub isn't it? The one thing I will certainly alwyas have on board will be an appropriately-sized kinetic strap. Since a lot of the places we will be would have heavy machinery available to access in days (as opposed to weeks), I will always have that sling shot handy. I watched a neighbor in a JD tractor snatch a full garbage truck out the muck that was up to the axle in no time flat. It impressed me.

 

[IdaSHO]

Certainly no one size fits all, especially when weight is of great concern.

Your type of travel, where you go, WHEN you go, etc, all play into it.

Our travel is year round, regardless of weather, in the PNW, so winter/ice/snow is always part of the equation.
A good set of chains are always on board (for front and rear). It is pretty amazing just how well a heavy truck does with just one set of chains. Chains at all 4 corners and in 4wd and you can get top places you really shouldn't be! That, and our regular every day commute can require chains!

Typically, I push into the white stuff off road as far as I can safely without chains. Old truck has a pretty tight rear limited slip. New truck has an e-locker. With some weight on the rear end anything beyond an open diff does pretty good. The chains can be used to get out, if needed. There are a few places that I toss them on just to get in, but they are regular spots for us. I know the terrain, and I know the extra hassle is worth it.

We have managed to live without a winch for many years and many trips, but the new truck will have one.
A simple slide-off is always a concern on the white stuff. And obstacles/ditches are easily concealed. Twice now I have spent a few hours on the business end of a come-along to suck us out of the ditch.

 

[luthj]

In remote areas (even more so in a large vehicle) the ability to self recover (or at least enable a larger vehicle to recover you) is a big deal. It could be the difference between days/weeks, or half a year waiting to recover. Better to have it and never need to use it. Sometimes even all the drive skill and care in the world cant prevent getting stuck.

I would agree that having a huge winch(s) may not have much purpose on a very heavy vehicles that travel solo.

Commercial hoisting/lifting gear is a good option. The commercial gear has a much higher safety/design factor than winching gear. So look up the absolute/breaking capacity for the component, and then adjust for your safety tolerance (a factor of 1.5 may be sufficient for winching). If you go by the hoisting rated loads, you will have a safety factor much higher than needed for a winching/recovery operation.

A set of strong chains makes easy work of snow and shallow mud. A good shovel and sturdy traction mats are always good choices.

I would also suggest making sure you have recovery strong points on the corners, and possibly mid-ships. Sometimes you need to perform a heavy side pull to prevent a fall into a ditch or hillside. Some recovery points are not suitable for direct side pulls, and can break/bend. A place with good radius that you can wrap a strap around works (properly prepped frame rail, etc).

 

[waveslider]

I would also suggest making sure you have recovery strong points on the corners, and possibly mid-ships. Sometimes you need to perform a heavy side pull to prevent a fall into a ditch or hillside. Some recovery points are not suitable for direct side pulls, and can break/bend. A place with good radius that you can wrap a strap around works (properly prepped frame rail, etc).

Good Point

A good set of chains are always on board (for front and rear). It is pretty amazing just how well a heavy truck does with just one set of chains.

Its very likely that we will be following this bit of advice, at least in the late season hunting locations. Thanks.

Also, speaking on items from the commercial wrecker/tow industry, I wonder if anyone has tried the air-bag type jacks for the full size trucks. I don't mean like the ARB pillow-type air bags, but rather the compact air bag jacks like the one pictured below. They don't weigh a tremendous amount (at least not appreciably more than a suitable bottle jack) and probably are quite a bit quicker to deploy.

Any thoughts?

 

[45lpv]

Thanks Darrell.

45lpv, have you had to put any time on the winch for your EC? If so, how did it perform and what were the conditions? It looks like that HD kit would work great for your rig. What the fully loaded weight? Around 16k?

I have done nothing more than spool the steel line in under load, and pull a downed tree off a trail in George Washington NF this past April. They tell me that fully loaded weight should fall around 13k.

 

[waveslider]

^^^Thanks. Don't make the same mistake I did and keep that heavy ****** steel line on your winch. Spend the money to upgrade to synthetic. I was amazed at how well the handling improved in the Sportsmobile when I took all that weight off the front end like a bunch of tractor plates.

 

[foxhunter]

Chris Cole, of Safe-xtract sent these recommendations to me for my 23k pound vehicle with a 16.5k winch on it(I followed his recomendations):
3) Here is what I would recommend:
a) You get a 1/5" diameter 20 'Kinetic Energy Recovery Rope [KERR] with a MTS of 74,000 lbs. [or even better a 2" at 131,500 lbs.] This is a really great tool, if used properly, to pull out stuck vehicles using a bit of momentum. But you have to be careful about that though. It's also a great piece of equipment to include in your recovery chain when winching - it takes out the shock load and safes your rigging.
b) I hate steel cable! With your winch rated at 16,500 lbs. you would need about 60' of 1/2" winch line [WL] with a MTS of 31,300 lbs - almost double your winch capacity. You winch line will only see 16,500 lbs. But you want to be almost double for shock load etc. - another reason to use a KERR. If you replace your winch cable - get new rollers for your winch and clean the drum well. Get all sharp edges / burrs off.
c) I would get a 60' winch line extension[WLE] that would be 5/8" diameter with a MTS of 51,400 lbs.
d) Tree saver rated at 80,000 lbs.
e) Some 5/8" soft shackles with a MTS of 102,500 lbs. So, I would permanently install an alloy screw pin bow shackle with 1.25" pin rated at 15 ton in your Factor 55 thimble - the just use soft shackles.

Not sure what frame mounted recovery points you have on your U500 to connect to for doing doing a Momentum Xtraction, Traction Xtraction, DLP, SB - see attached graphic - these all require good frame mounted recovery points on your vehicle.


Here is why. See the attached graphic to help out.
Single Line pull [SLP] range is thus 60' WL + 60' WLE +20' KERR = 140' range
Double Line Pull [DLP] Range is thus 60/2' WL + 60' WLE +20' KERR = 110' range. The WLE would see a max of 16,500 lbs x 2 = 33,000 lbs and at 51,400 is fine. Pulling capacity is 33,000 lbs with the 2:1 mechanical advantage
Spanish Burton Range [SB] 30' WL + 15 ' WLE +20' KERR = 65' range. In this case the KERR would see 66,000 lbs. Pulling capacity is 66,000 lbs with the 4:1 mechanical advantage. making the 2" KERR with a MTS of 131,500 lbs. double what the winch can do in a 4:1 - so you're safer.
In all the above you would need a tree saver [strap] that could handle 80,000 lbs to be safe. I also use soft shackles as you'll see in the attached graphic. They're really super light and super strong but can't be used on sharp edges. They will get cut. This is where screw pin shackles are useful.

I have all of the above here at home and can get you pricing information once you decide how far you want to go with recovery rigging. You do need to have really good fame mounted recovery points though.

A bit of education goes a long way - then you can decide how you want to skin this cat.

A good friend once told me that some things in life are like trying to stuff a wet noodle up a wild cats ass - difficult and dangerous. Recovery does not have to be either when correctly done with properly rated equipment.

Chris also has an app he developed for military and civilian use for a droid(not Iphone) that can be downloaded that will help you figure out what winch set up to safely use depending on the weight of your vehicle and how bad you are stuck. It is really indispensable . The only problem with the above recommendations is a 1.25 inch alloy screw pin will not fit through a Factor 55 thimble. I had to go with a 1 inch Crosby alloy screw shackle and that took some filing to make it fit.

 

[waveslider]

Foxhunter,

This is outstanding. Thanks for sharing.

A couple questions now that I've absorbed it a little more:

Point A: Check, Roger, 10-4. KERR is already on the list.
Point B: When he speaks of hating steel cable, was he advocating that you re-string the winch with synthetic? I didn't quite understand that? I did see that superline makes a 1/2" synth line with around the same breaking strength he spoke of.
Point C: Where did you source the 5/8" diameter winch line extension? I saw one on the MasterPull site around that size but that was it.
Point D: Got it
Point E: Got it, Bubba Gator Pro.

I was wondering about the Factor55 thimble also because I didn't think that would fit either. I don't know how long ago you had this exchange, but Factor55 has come out with a Flatlink XXL that you can connect a soft-shackle to directly without damaging the fibers. Which sounds ideal.

Do you happen to have the graphics that accompanied his advice? I think it would make the descriptions come alive.

Thanks again for the info.

EDIT: I just pulled up what I think are the correct images to the descriptions above. I'm hoping it kosher to post the link here: https://www.safe-xtract.com/recovery-kits

 

[foxhunter]

Waveslider. You did find the correct images that he sent me, on the website. Yes, he strongly preferred synthetic rope over the steel cable that came on the winch, so I changed to the synthetic he recommended. Safe-Xtract sold me all of the gear,including the 5/8 inch winch line extension.
He also provided me with a youtube video and instruction that shows the correct knot to use to secure the synthetic winch line to the drum.
I greatly appreciate you informing me about the Flatlink XXl that allows use of the soft shackle. I love the soft shackles. Simple to use and safer.

 

[waveslider]

Sweet, I reached out to Chris.

 

[s.e.charles]

…. some things in life are like trying to stuff a wet noodle up a wild cats ass ...

thanks for the reference point; I was getting bogged down in all the numbers!