GMT900 ( 07-13 Tahoe/Suburban )?

[Stormhammer]

I've been looking at various chassis ( from the new Cherokee Trailhawk and Grand Cherokee ) to F-150's, F-250's and Excursions, to Tacos, 4Runners and such. I've seen in general GMT800s built up, but why is it that I rarely see a GMT900 for overlanding, much less even off roading? Am I missing something? I'd have figured with how common they are, and affordable, that they'd be a contender, no?

 

[CRolandLJ]

I believe you'll find a lot of nay-sayers on the platform because it was the first to get away from standalone bumpers, they stopped sharing as much with the truck platforms, etc. Also i believe (except for in Z71) they moved away from a true transfer case with low range in 2010 (?). Also the rocker area is extremely susceptible to rust I've heard (i live in Texas where rust is a non issue). There is also not a ton of aftermarket support for them as compared to the previous generations.

That being said i'm considering one because I can't find hardly any 06 and earlier suburbans that are clean and low-ish miles. I think they're great looking trucks, I especially like the yukons (although finding a true 4x4 in those is even harder). I think you missed one point though, they aren't exactly "affordable" yet. This generation of suburban with low-ish miles still brings close to 20k, which is a lot for up to a 9 year old truck. I haven't shopped tahoes as thoroughly as burbs, so they may be lower because of their sheer numbers but still - they aren't the cheapest alternative so that combined with the relatively slim aftermarket probably pushes some people away. For me personally a stock Z71 with some good tires is enough for me, so I'm not to worried about pulling the trigger if I find a good deal.

 

[rayra]

Croland, i think an option worth considering is buying a '03-'05 with a deliberate plan to put in a new short block and trans. If one is handy enough to do most the mechanical work themselves.
Their prices are falling steadily still and reasonable already. And they're in their prime so to speak when it comes to parts availability and pricing. I bought my '02 k1500 Sub with 116k mi for $6000 two years ago this Thanksgiving. It's only now getting long in the tooth and the missus' '05 Tahoe with 170k mi is only now needing some work done (we bought it new).

All of which has been fairly easy and affordable. On top of that, what I'm finding in her vehicle and mostly in mine is an amazing lack of wear and tear, most of which I'm documenting in my 'Hey Vortec Guys' topic. Ours have mostly highway miles, though. But still. They have been 'cheap to keep'.

I have some qualms about the 4L60E in mine, especially with future intentions to haul an off-road pop-up trailer on some trips in the desert southwest. That will likely be the death-knell for that trans. I've had a bit of slipping in 1-2 last year, but that was after I stupidly put a powerful little magnet on the trans drain plug. I think it actually interfered with valving / ball/spring action. Removed the magnet and did a partial fluid change with 'hi mileage' trans fluid and its been fine since, for most of a year and thru this summer's heat. But it was enough to break trust.

Still, I think I got a great value for the price. And at that low price, major drivetrain work is 'affordable' if and when it is needed

And I have to say buying an older higher mileage vehicle has been liberating in a way. I've no qualms about modifying it, putting holes in it. Something I was loathe to do with our Tahoes bought New.

 

[Martinjmpr]

I think it's simply because they haven't moved "down market" far enough to be of interest to vehicle modifiers. Not many people will throw $25k+ down on a family hauler and then immediately start pulling suspension parts and bumpers off. Give it a few years and you'll see more of them.

The 07's in particular had some growing pains with the AFM system but there are workarounds to that and really, all older vehicles are going to have their quirks and idiosyncrasies that enthusiasts will have to figure workarounds on.

EDITED TO ADD: I would imagine that the "sweet spot" for vehicles is when you can get one in decent shape for $10k or less. That puts it into the range of a hobbyist or a person buying a 2nd vehicle. I would guess we're still 2 - 3 years away from the GMT-900's being in that range (you can actually find them in that range now but they're either thrashed or hi mileage or both.)

 

[rayra]

Agreed. But I think you also hit on a 'sweet spot' for the person that can and is willing to do the work. The early 'fuel management' systems were plagued with bore scoring, oil adulteration, cylinder and bearing trouble, worst case. Find one in otherwise good shape, the price would be a good bit lower (if the problems are admitted in the sale), then do the short block swap and edit out the fuel shutoff programming (I believe that's being done already) and you've got a GMT900 with a fresh motor for less cost than the 'tired' ones with 100k+ mi.

 

[Stormhammer]

I think it's simply because they haven't moved "down market" far enough to be of interest to vehicle modifiers. Not many people will throw $25k+ down on a family hauler and then immediately start pulling suspension parts and bumpers off. Give it a few years and you'll see more of them.

The 07's in particular had some growing pains with the AFM system but there are workarounds to that and really, all older vehicles are going to have their quirks and idiosyncrasies that enthusiasts will have to figure workarounds on.

EDITED TO ADD: I would imagine that the "sweet spot" for vehicles is when you can get one in decent shape for $10k or less. That puts it into the range of a hobbyist or a person buying a 2nd vehicle. I would guess we're still 2 - 3 years away from the GMT-900's being in that range (you can actually find them in that range now but they're either thrashed or hi mileage or both.)

Maybe it's a different demograph, but I see people dropping coin on Tacoma's, 4Runner's, Land Cruisers and Land Rovers and they definitely surpass that price point...

As for those who talk about the aftermarket - it's decently large. Maybe not to a F150/Super Duty/japanese manufacturer, but from what I've been able to see, it's decent enough.

 

[justcuz]

Oddly folks will spend more for a Toyota with higher mileage and older than 2007. The Suburban in any form is becoming a not so well kept secret and several former Toyota owners on this forum are converts,
Most of what is done in a full size can be done in a mildly modified vehicle. A rear locker, good shocks, 2" of suspension lift and 32 or 33" tires make most Suburban's quite capable vehicles.

 

[upcruiser]

We were considering 900's as well as 800's when looking at Suburbans. Outside of the higher cost the main issues I had with the 900's was the perceived less spacious feel of the interior. The visibility and feel inside is a bit more compromised in the 900's therefore, for the size, the storage is slightly less than you get with the 800's. Also, as previously mentioned, the door bottoms extend to the bottom of the truck which I see as a poor design in regards to stone chips and subsequent rust. I would rather hit a rocker on a rock than the bottom edge of my door. The plastic bumpers make things tougher for bumper options as well. I have driven a bunch of 900's as rental vehicles, and do like the way they ride and the way the newer transmission works. When it came down to it though, the 800's appeared to be the sweet spot of old school truck and modern comfort.

Problem is though, regardless of generation, one thing they all have in common though is that people put tons of miles on these vehicles and most seem to not take the greatest care of them. While they are loved platforms, they aren't really enthusiast cars therefore finding low mileage, well taken care of examples is hard the older you go. It took me a solid 6 months of searching before I ended up settling on our 2004 2500 Burb.

I have said it before and will say it again though, if you need to haul a lot of people/gear and cover a lot of ground, there is no better rig in North America than a Suburban.

 

[Stryder106]

Hey Rayra - on your 4L60E - I FINALLY (after going through 3 of them) found a shop/owner in Bloomington who actually has a handle on the issues with these transmissions. Had him get rid of mine (I didn't want a single piece from it or even the case) and put in a completely built up one with matched metal components (the 4L60E issue can be traced to steel shaft mated with aluminum drum - heat up at different rates, fluid slips through, bang - buh-bye 3-4). Heavy duty converter, heavy duty internals, trans Go shift kit - $1700 installed. Have had ZERO problems since. Benson Transmissions in Bloomington, CA (by Rialto) Mike Benson is the owner.

 

[02TahoeMD]

I have driven a bunch of 900's as rental vehicles, and do like the way they ride and the way the newer transmission works. When it came down to it though, the 800's appeared to be the sweet spot of old school truck and modern comfort.

As someone who owns a 2002 Tahoe and uses a 2011 Tahoe at work, this statement sums up things quite nicely.

Personally I think the GMT800s are better made than the 900s. Plastic bumpers, ultra low slung running boards and air dams, all are big negatives for me for using the GMT900 for any kind of serious use unless you heavily modify them. The 900s are a pain to work on as well. For instance, I can change a headlight bulb in my 02 in about 5 minutes or less. Doing the same job on a 900 series takes at least a half hour and requires the partial disassembly of the wheel well liners.

 

[proper4wd]

I'd love a GMT900 Suburban 2500 with a front clip/badging swap from a GMT900 Sierra 2500 HD (gets rid of the plastic front end and allows for a steel bumper/winch)

 

[02TahoeMD]

I'd love a GMT900 Suburban 2500 with a front clip/badging swap from a GMT900 Sierra 2500 HD (gets rid of the plastic front end and allows for a steel bumper/winch)

Perhaps something like this?

 

[proper4wd]

Yep except I like the GMC nose a whole lot more

 

[justcuz]

We were considering 900's as well as 800's when looking at Suburbans. Outside of the higher cost the main issues I had with the 900's was the perceived less spacious feel of the interior. The visibility and feel inside is a bit more compromised in the 900's therefore, for the size, the storage is slightly less than you get with the 800's. Also, as previously mentioned, the door bottoms extend to the bottom of the truck which I see as a poor design in regards to stone chips and subsequent rust. I would rather hit a rocker on a rock than the bottom edge of my door. The plastic bumpers make things tougher for bumper options as well. I have driven a bunch of 900's as rental vehicles, and do like the way they ride and the way the newer transmission works. When it came down to it though, the 800's appeared to be the sweet spot of old school truck and modern comfort.

Problem is though, regardless of generation, one thing they all have in common though is that people put tons of miles on these vehicles and most seem to not take the greatest care of them. While they are loved platforms, they aren't really enthusiast cars therefore finding low mileage, well taken care of examples is hard the older you go. It took me a solid 6 months of searching before I ended up settling on our 2004 2500 Burb.

I have said it before and will say it again though, if you need to haul a lot of people/gear and cover a lot of ground, there is no better rig in North America than a Suburban.

Very good summation of the pros and cons from an overlanding standpoint. Our 2015 Suburban is even more visibility restricted since they raised the beltline and made the glass smaller. It appears smaller inside because there is less ambient light, not sure if it actually is though.
A truck front clip or the Border Patrol bumper trim in front are both good choices. The Border Patrol trim includes a skid plate.

 

[rayra]

Perhaps something like this?

wow, is that the whole front clip, fenders too? I like it. And the mirrors.