H3T at Moab
- Thread starter haven
- Start date
KevinNY said:
Are you sure you aren't thinking H2s? Those were notorious for bending tie-rods, but in the H3s, tie-rods have not been much of an issue (at least in my experience and the experience of those I know who wheel a lot).
There have been 3 primary issues w/the H3, one was weak valves on early production engines, one was not enough lapping compound on rear dif (again, early production issues and an American Axle issue, not a GM issue), and the other was the front dif grenading.
The front dif seems to happen in one situation: Larger tires with a static load and then on the gas - like when you are going up a step. In fact, the most well-known issue was when some H3 owners I've wheeled with grenaded 2 different difs at the same spot on Golden Spike and had to be strapped out by H2s. GM warranteed BOTH, even though they happened off-road and they were running 35's. That's some fantastic warranty service and just shows that GM really backs the H3.
As for tie-rods, I disagree these are a weak point, even with 35s. IIRC, the stock tie-rods were upgraded to 16mm on the Alpha to support the extra weight of the V8, but otherwise the 14mm were doing just fine.
KevinNY said:
I wasn't disputing what you saw
My point was that personal experience seeing a tie-rod bend doesn't necessarily translate as applying generally to all H3s (I know a ton of H3ers who wheel the heck out of their vehicles and have never had a tie-rod fail). That particular tie rod might have been bad - it happens on every vehicle that's wheeled, regardless of make. It's not necessarily a syptom of a systemic issue with H3s.As you suggested, I did a quick internet search on google of 'H3 tie rod failure' and came up with 2 legitimate hits. One from ebola, one from hummerforums (both of which I'm a member). Given that these are hummer forums frequented by H3ers who actually wheel their vehicles, I'm surprised there weren't more hits.
I also did a google search of 'H3 differential failure' and came up with 1 hit.
For reference, I did 'H2 tie rod failure' and the legit results filled the first page and then some. The primary reason for H2 tie rod failures is the huge weight of the H2 and the stock truck tie-rods used in production vehicles, combined with off-roading.
Just to cover my 'quick web search' back, I just typed in 'tie rod failure' - the 1st page results covered GM (2 links), Ford (1 link), BMW (1), Audi (1), and Land Rover (1). No Hummer links were found until the 3rd page, after mentions of numerous Ford, a dumptruck and even a VW. Using internetlogic, it would appear that Hummer tierods are better built than 3 German carmakers! woohoo!!!
Seriously though, I'm pretty convinced, through my own personal experience and supplemental research, that H3 tierods are just fine, and pose no greater risk of failure than any other off-road oriented vehicles out there. Your experience is different, so I doubt there will be any convincing you otherwise
That's the attitude I was talking about
Ok KEVINNY you saw it happen - so do you have to show an attitude "What part of saw it happen don't you understand?"
This is what I was talking about with the bashing and opinions and ANTI thing. Maybe you don't like H3s or insert name brand here. But just becasue
someone brings up another point and then since you "saw it happen" does that give you the right to snap? Come on.
I'm sure if we asked everyone to tell stories about things they've seen then we'd have every make and model of vehicle out there have some sort of weakness.
My point is ALL rigs have downfall(s) - ALL OF THEM.
It's up to the buyer to determine what they do and don't need and then go out and buy their vehicle.
We and I say WE need to provide true and accurate info on vehicles. If there are service bulletins or recalls or whatever we need to put it out there. If one person has only "saw" 1 failure of a particular part I don't think that is grounds for labeling it an ALL or EVERYONE problem. If it's a reoccuring problem then it "usually" ends up in a recall or SB.
Maybe I'm just wasting my time here I don't know. I just think that facts are more important than opinion when it comes to claiming "problems" with vehicles.
Again I think the H3T will be a great rig. Will it be the best one out there - that's for the future buyers to decide.
Ok KEVINNY you saw it happen - so do you have to show an attitude "What part of saw it happen don't you understand?"
This is what I was talking about with the bashing and opinions and ANTI thing. Maybe you don't like H3s or insert name brand here. But just becasue
someone brings up another point and then since you "saw it happen" does that give you the right to snap? Come on.
I'm sure if we asked everyone to tell stories about things they've seen then we'd have every make and model of vehicle out there have some sort of weakness.
My point is ALL rigs have downfall(s) - ALL OF THEM.
It's up to the buyer to determine what they do and don't need and then go out and buy their vehicle.
We and I say WE need to provide true and accurate info on vehicles. If there are service bulletins or recalls or whatever we need to put it out there. If one person has only "saw" 1 failure of a particular part I don't think that is grounds for labeling it an ALL or EVERYONE problem. If it's a reoccuring problem then it "usually" ends up in a recall or SB.
Maybe I'm just wasting my time here I don't know. I just think that facts are more important than opinion when it comes to claiming "problems" with vehicles.
Again I think the H3T will be a great rig. Will it be the best one out there - that's for the future buyers to decide.
dieselcruiserhead
16 Years on ExPo. Whoa!!
I realize these are passenger vehicles and not the original military spec. I think the issue is that the Hummers are dressed up to be tough, and a lot of people think they actually are, but in reality they have a number of design limitations and weaknesses that prevent them from being "tough." If they were built with some resemblance of their origins, other than cosmetically, then I think it would be a different case and many people, such as myself, would support them with greater enthusiasm.
So that it is, and because of this, it doesn't surprize me a bit to see the low weight capacity (and other weaknesses) of the H3 & H3 pickup.
I hope it helps,
Andre
So that it is, and because of this, it doesn't surprize me a bit to see the low weight capacity (and other weaknesses) of the H3 & H3 pickup.
I hope it helps,
Andre
Ron B
Explorer
KevinNY said:
I didn't realize you were talking about the tie-rods -- thought it was something bigger that would really bone you in the boonies. Maybe GM cheaped out a bit, but at least it's with an easy to replace/cheap part. Seen lots go on h2's, one fj cruiser and one h3 on Gold Mountain. Usually the result of too much gas -- front end starts hopping then your taking a 20 min break while it's replaced.
rb
dieselcruiserhead said:
I'm wondering exactly what the design limitations and weaknesses are that you are talking about? The only one is the front diff grenading (fixed if you get an Alpha w/CI front dif), which then means I don't know of anything else that prevents them from being tough? Perhaps you can help enlighten me?
And as an fyi, the weight capacity of a Rubi (which from an offroad perspective is the only new vehicle that can hold a torch to the H3 in this price range), is LOWER than an H3 weight capacity. by about 100# or so (that's a lot of beer!).
Now, from a truck perspective, there is no doubt that the H3T has a low weight capacity - other similar SUT-type vehicles typically have 1300-1500# capacity. Of course, those vehicles also can't fit 35s stock nor do they typically come w/lockers/FT 4WD, etc. And really, would you rather drive around in a Ford Exploder SUT or a Hummer H3T??
...So I think we are back to pontification and rhetoric. I personally love the fact that my H3 (and H3T when it's released) creates such disdain - from the greenies it's because we are ruining the environment (H3s get better gas mileage than quite a few other comparable SUVs) or from other off-road enthusiasts (who deep down know the H3 is at or near the top of the mid-size 4WD food chain). The real funny part is, had the JK been out when I bought mine, I probably would have gone w/a Rubi and not gotten involved in these debates...now though it's way better because I get to needle all the haters out there :coffeedrink:
KevinNY
Adventurer
3 DOGS said:
It seems the only with an attitude here is you. I have wheeled H2s as a guide for the Equinox resort and seen the failures of diffs, engines, and transfer cases. I've seen H3s being wheeled and they did OK. I've seen same H3 have it's tie rods collapse from fatigue and somehow now I am "Bashing" the brand??? If all brands have weaknesses then why are you jumping on me for pointing out one on the hummer? get real
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mountainpete
Spamicus Eliminatus
Facts and personal experience is HIGHLY valued on ExPo, but please keep the discussion respectful.
Brand bashing stops here or this thread will be locked.
Pete
Brand bashing stops here or this thread will be locked.
Pete
pete.wilson
Adventurer
Hey
The one thing everyone has to remember, lets be honest, is that ALL production vehicles have short comings. Builders such as GM, Ford, Dodge, Jeep, Land Rover, others and yes even Toyota. They ALL make a decent vehicles but have to sell them for a reasonable price so people will buy them time and time again, thats what their in business to do. They are providing what the masses want to an extent (not for a select few true off-roaders who don't usually buy repeatedly like those trying to keep up with the Jones'). That's the best part of having shortcomings is having such a good aftermarket. Replace H2 or H3 tierods with aftermarket parts and most weak problems are solved; Rebuild or replace axles, overhaul transfer case, install new springs and a stocks weak link is gone, etc. I like how Jeepers have always said "Real Jeeps are made, not bought", there is a lot of truth in that statement. I drive an old 94 GMC suburban 4X4 with IFS, it works fine for the type of off-roading/camping/research I do. Some would yank the IFS and install a solid axle, and thats fine, others yet wouldn't touch the whole thing. No need for the attitudes, just different wants for different folks, as long as we all have fun and take pride in our own rides who cares what gets driven.....Hell someday I may own a Toyota. But there is a place for each of us to do our own thing and an aftermarket that helps us modify our toys. After all, didn't we join the forums here to read about the mods and experiences of others and how they modified their own rigs for doing what they wanted. Relax and enjoy.
The one thing everyone has to remember, lets be honest, is that ALL production vehicles have short comings. Builders such as GM, Ford, Dodge, Jeep, Land Rover, others and yes even Toyota. They ALL make a decent vehicles but have to sell them for a reasonable price so people will buy them time and time again, thats what their in business to do. They are providing what the masses want to an extent (not for a select few true off-roaders who don't usually buy repeatedly like those trying to keep up with the Jones'). That's the best part of having shortcomings is having such a good aftermarket. Replace H2 or H3 tierods with aftermarket parts and most weak problems are solved; Rebuild or replace axles, overhaul transfer case, install new springs and a stocks weak link is gone, etc. I like how Jeepers have always said "Real Jeeps are made, not bought", there is a lot of truth in that statement. I drive an old 94 GMC suburban 4X4 with IFS, it works fine for the type of off-roading/camping/research I do. Some would yank the IFS and install a solid axle, and thats fine, others yet wouldn't touch the whole thing. No need for the attitudes, just different wants for different folks, as long as we all have fun and take pride in our own rides who cares what gets driven.....Hell someday I may own a Toyota. But there is a place for each of us to do our own thing and an aftermarket that helps us modify our toys. After all, didn't we join the forums here to read about the mods and experiences of others and how they modified their own rigs for doing what they wanted. Relax and enjoy.
KevinNY said:
ok, the Anti-Anti was pretty funny. So if you really hated your aunt, would that make you and Anti-Aunt? I see a lot of potential here:
Aunt-haters: Anti-Aunt
Ant-haters: Anti-ant
Halloween haters: Anti-haunt
People who hate people going off on forums: Anti-rant
Steep slope-haters: Anti-slant
can you tell it's Monday, I'm at work, and I'm already bored???
gary in ohio
Explorer
/QUOTE]
The photo is interesting. The fenders, bed cover and bumper look like they are straight off a Chevy Avalanche. Looks like they slid a square off the cabin on an AV and removed the sail panels.