********************** with your trailer?

Tucson T4R

Expedition Leader
:iagree: I like having all my camping stuff on a trailer. It keeps everything organized at home between trips, ready to go and it gives you more room in your truck to either carry more paasengers or just run lighter when unhooked and exploring the back country. As long as the trailer is rugged with independant suspension and an articulating hitch...life is good.:elkgrin:
 

Scott Brady

Founder
Tucson T4R said:
:iagree: I like having all my camping stuff on a trailer. It keeps everything organized at home between trips, ready to go and it gives you more room in your truck to either carry more paasengers or just run lighter when unhooked and exploring the back country. As long as the trailer is rugged with independant suspension and an articulating hitch...life is good.:elkgrin:

Exactly! :D
 

Martyn

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
The suspension system on our Adventure Trailers allows for an extremely smooth ride over a variety of different conditions. It transmits little if any movement from the trailer to the vehicle, and a comment many of our customers say is “I forgot I was towing a trailer”.

Here in lies a problem. It seems that people are towing trailers at speeds on the highway that exceed the speed limit, and are pulling the trailers off road at higher speeds than are prudent.

On road towing any trailer reduces the tow vehicles performance when engaging emergency maneuvers, this is true not matter how well the trailer performs on the road.

Off road the driver have to imagine he / she is towing a 3 axle vehicle, and paying attention to the fact that there is an other axle that has to pass over an obstacle AFTER the tow vehicle has gone over it, and BEFORE they accelerate away. Some drivers are slowing their vehicles to pass over an obstacle and then start to accelerate before the trailer is over the obstacle. The increased forward motion of the trailer is then transmitted upward !!

In our trailers the dampening of this upward motion is exaggerated if the airbags are inflated over the suggested 6” height as there is now nowhere for the upward compression to go. If the airbags are at their recommended height much of the upward motion is absorbed.

So PLEASE PLEASE when towing any trailer stay within the safety zone.
 
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Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
Great points to keep in mind Martyn. I definitely was guilty of not keeping my pace down until the trailer axle made it over the same obstacle the tow vehicle had just concurred, but I learned quickly after I watched the Chaser get tossed from side to side more roughly than I would have preferred. I want to clarify the 6-inch thing. Is it six inches of total bag height or six inches total spring assembly height (including the mounts, top & bottom caps). My impression is that it's 6-inches of black bag (spring), but want to be sure.

Having just finally used my Chaser for the first time this past weekend for a brief overnight trip, I felt that for slower speed rock wheelin' where the one Chaser tire would roll off a rock and one tire would quickly pivot down and the other would pop up (twisting mostly on the rock&roll hitch), I might want to let a little air out of the bags compared to what I had (not sure if I was at 6-in, but was close) and letting tire pressure out like on the tow rig was helpful. For example, I was running 9-psi in my BFG 265/75R16 tires on 8-in. wheels on the Chaser. 4Runner had 10-psi in the fronts and 16-psi in the rear due to the substantial weight on the rear axle (two large dogs in kennel in the back of the wagon, 20-gallons gas, full water tank, tools/recovery gear in the nose box with the battery). I also think it would be nice if I changed to wheels with less back-spacing and/or different off-set to make them stick out a bit more. Right now my tires/wheels are quite close to the body, my proposed change would still have the tires well under the fenders. I thinking is to possibly add some stability, make the Chaser's track width closer to my tow vehicle, and to add clearance for chains.

Martyn said:
The suspension system on our Adventure Trailers allows for an extremely smooth ride over a variety of different conditions. It transmits little if any movement from the trailer to the vehicle, and a comment many of our customers say is “I forgot I was towing a trailer”.

Here in lies a problem. It seems that people are towing trailers at speeds on the highway that exceed the speed limit, and are pulling the trailers off road at higher speeds than are prudent.

On road towing any trailer reduces the tow vehicles performance when engaging emergency maneuvers, this is true not matter how well the trailer performs on the road.

Off road the driver have to imagine he / she is towing a 3 axle vehicle, and paying attention to the fact that there is an other axle that has to pass over an obstacle AFTER the tow vehicle has gone over it, and BEFORE they accelerate away. Some drivers are slowing their vehicles to pass over an obstacle and then start to accelerate before the trailer is over the obstacle. The increased forward motion of the trailer is then transmitted upward !!

In our trailers the dampening of this upward motion is exaggerated if the airbags are inflated over the suggested 6” height as there is now nowhere for the upward compression to go. If the airbags are at their recommended height much of the upward motion is absorbed.

So PLEASE PLEASE when towing any trailer stay within the safety zone.
 

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spressomon

Expedition Leader
Redline said:
Great points to keep in mind Martyn. I definitely was guilty of not keeping my pace down until the trailer axle made it over the same obstacle the tow vehicle had just concurred, but I learned quickly after I watched the Chaser get tossed from side to side more roughly than I would have preferred. I want to clarify the 6-inch thing. Is it six inches of total bag height or six inches total spring assembly height (including the mounts, top & bottom caps). My impression is that it's 6-inches of black bag (spring), but want to be sure.

Having just finally used my Chaser for the first time this past weekend for a brief overnight trip, I felt that for slower speed rock wheelin' where the one Chaser tire would roll off a rock and one tire would quickly pivot down and the other would pop up (twisting mostly on the rock&roll hitch), I might want to let a little air out of the bags compared to what I had (not sure if I was at 6-in, but was close) and letting tire pressure out like on the tow rig was helpful. For example, I was running 9-psi in my BFG 265/75R16 tires on 8-in. wheels on the Chaser. 4Runner had 10-psi in the fronts and 16-psi in the rear due to the substantial weight on the rear axle (two large dogs in kennel in the back of the wagon, 20-gallons gas, full water tank, tools/recovery gear in the nose box with the battery). I also think it would be nice if I changed to wheels with less back-spacing and/or different off-set to make them stick out a bit more. Right now my tires/wheels are quite close to the body, my proposed change would still have the tires well under the fenders. I thinking is to possibly add some stability, make the Chaser's track width closer to my tow vehicle, and to add clearance for chains.


Ditto on the "where to measure the 6". The air spring sits higher on the rear side than it does on the front side...since it is not perfectly vertical. But maybe you can show me at Pyramid :) .
 

Bob_Sheaves

Observer
Martyn said:
The suspension system on our Adventure Trailers allows for an extremely smooth ride over a variety of different conditions. It transmits little if any movement from the trailer to the vehicle, and a comment many of our customers say is “I forgot I was towing a trailer”.

Here in lies a problem. It seems that people are towing trailers at speeds on the highway that exceed the speed limit, and are pulling the trailers off road at higher speeds than are prudent.

On road towing any trailer reduces the tow vehicles performance when engaging emergency maneuvers, this is true not matter how well the trailer performs on the road.

Off road the driver have to imagine he / she is towing a 3 axle vehicle, and paying attention to the fact that there is an other axle that has to pass over an obstacle AFTER the tow vehicle has gone over it, and BEFORE they accelerate away. Some drivers are slowing their vehicles to pass over an obstacle and then start to accelerate before the trailer is over the obstacle. The increased forward motion of the trailer is then transmitted upward !!

In our trailers the dampening of this upward motion is exaggerated if the airbags are inflated over the suggested 6” height as there is now nowhere for the upward compression to go. If the airbags are at their recommended height much of the upward motion is absorbed.

So PLEASE PLEASE when towing any trailer stay within the safety zone.
Thank you for your timely comments. I assume, taken from experience and expressed well. A stone in a sling is no less dangerous.... ask Goliath....

Best regards,

Bob Sheaves
CEO
catNET Incorporated
http://www.catnetsolutions.com
 

Martyn

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Redline said:
Great points to keep in mind Martyn. I definitely was guilty of not keeping my pace down until the trailer axle made it over the same obstacle the tow vehicle had just concurred, but I learned quickly after I watched the Chaser get tossed from side to side more roughly than I would have preferred. I want to clarify the 6-inch thing. Is it six inches of total bag height or six inches total spring assembly height (including the mounts, top & bottom caps). My impression is that it's 6-inches of black bag (spring), but want to be sure.

Having just finally used my Chaser for the first time this past weekend for a brief overnight trip, I felt that for slower speed rock wheelin' where the one Chaser tire would roll off a rock and one tire would quickly pivot down and the other would pop up (twisting mostly on the rock&roll hitch), I might want to let a little air out of the bags compared to what I had (not sure if I was at 6-in, but was close) and letting tire pressure out like on the tow rig was helpful. For example, I was running 9-psi in my BFG 265/75R16 tires on 8-in. wheels on the Chaser. 4Runner had 10-psi in the fronts and 16-psi in the rear due to the substantial weight on the rear axle (two large dogs in kennel in the back of the wagon, 20-gallons gas, full water tank, tools/recovery gear in the nose box with the battery). I also think it would be nice if I changed to wheels with less back-spacing and/or different off-set to make them stick out a bit more. Right now my tires/wheels are quite close to the body, my proposed change would still have the tires well under the fenders. I thinking is to possibly add some stability, make the Chaser's track width closer to my tow vehicle, and to add clearance for chains.

Attached is a picture showing how to measure the 6" of airbag inflation. After measuring the height a few times try to get used to the shape of the bag when correctly inflated, this way you have a good idea of where you’re at when it comes to height. Remember that the airbag height will change with loading and unloading the trailer. Once loaded inflate to 6”, once unloaded deflate to 6”. What is it with our inability to measure 6”?? :)

To space your tires outward from the chassis we can have 1.5" or 2" adapters made for you that will match your bolt pattern. I don't have the prices in front of me but it would be around $120 - $150 for a pair. Let's see what you need at Pyramid.
 

Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
Martyn:

I look forward to your expert opinion at the Pyramid Lake gathering:)

I would prefer not to run adapters, plus if I change to an inexpensive aluminum wheel with different backspacing (already have them on the car) I will loose the weight of the steel wheels too, have better balancing, etc.

My stock wheels are probably going to become my off-road wheels and the aftermarket ones can be transferred to the trailer.
 

Andrew Walcker

Mod Emeritus
Martyn said:
The suspension system on our Adventure Trailers allows for an extremely smooth ride over a variety of different conditions. It transmits little if any movement from the trailer to the vehicle, and a comment many of our customers say is “I forgot I was towing a trailer”.

Here in lies a problem. It seems that people are towing trailers at speeds on the highway that exceed the speed limit, and are pulling the trailers off road at higher speeds than are prudent.

On road towing any trailer reduces the tow vehicles performance when engaging emergency maneuvers, this is true not matter how well the trailer performs on the road.

Off road the driver have to imagine he / she is towing a 3 axle vehicle, and paying attention to the fact that there is an other axle that has to pass over an obstacle AFTER the tow vehicle has gone over it, and BEFORE they accelerate away. Some drivers are slowing their vehicles to pass over an obstacle and then start to accelerate before the trailer is over the obstacle. The increased forward motion of the trailer is then transmitted upward !!

In our trailers the dampening of this upward motion is exaggerated if the airbags are inflated over the suggested 6” height as there is now nowhere for the upward compression to go. If the airbags are at their recommended height much of the upward motion is absorbed.

So PLEASE PLEASE when towing any trailer stay within the safety zone.

Martyn-

Very well stated and I agree with your statements. The trailer is so transparent that it is easy to forget that it is even there. I've really got to remember to check the bags to make sure they are at the correct height. Do you recommend running the trailer tires at a lower pressure, or does that just increase resisitance/drag?
 

spressomon

Expedition Leader
Martyn said:
Attached is a picture showing how to measure the 6" of airbag inflation. After measuring the height a few times try to get used to the shape of the bag when correctly inflated, this way you have a good idea of where you’re at when it comes to height. Remember that the airbag height will change with loading and unloading the trailer. Once loaded inflate to 6”, once unloaded deflate to 6”. What is it with our inability to measure 6”?? :)

To space your tires outward from the chassis we can have 1.5" or 2" adapters made for you that will match your bolt pattern. I don't have the prices in front of me but it would be around $120 - $150 for a pair. Let's see what you need at Pyramid.


Ok...a picture's worth...

Rule is vertical at 50% fore/aft on top. I was measuring the 6" at the back...I'll try it your way this weekend!
 

Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
Exactly, me too. They are taller at the rear, so I was slightly over-inflating the springs.


spressomon said:
Ok...a picture's worth...

Rule is vertical at 50% fore/aft on top. I was measuring the 6" at the back...I'll try it your way this weekend!
 

spressomon

Expedition Leader
Redline said:
Exactly, me too. They are taller at the rear, so I was slightly over-inflating the springs.


And measuring 6" at the rear portion of the spring I was under inflating...
 

Willman

Active member
Martyn said:
Attached is a picture showing how to measure the 6" of airbag inflation. After measuring the height a few times try to get used to the shape of the bag when correctly inflated, this way you have a good idea of where you’re at when it comes to height. Remember that the airbag height will change with loading and unloading the trailer. Once loaded inflate to 6”, once unloaded deflate to 6”. What is it with our inability to measure 6”?? :)

To space your tires outward from the chassis we can have 1.5" or 2" adapters made for you that will match your bolt pattern. I don't have the prices in front of me but it would be around $120 - $150 for a pair. Let's see what you need at Pyramid.

Martyn:

What type of air bags do you guys use on your AT??? And how much weight can one of those bags take? Just wondering who makes the best bag on the market in your opinion????
Thanks
:)
 
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Martyn

Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Willman said:
Martyn:

What type of air bags do you guys use on your AT??? And how much weight can one of those bags take? Just wondering who makes the best bag on the market in your opinion????
Thanks
:)
We are using a Firestone airbag. Our supplier offers all the brands but has only had one failure with a Firestone in 4 years. The failure was in a big rig after the driver had run it on empty.

I believe the bags are rated at 2000lbs each so a total load of 4000lbs (Mario has the specs. I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong here). This vastly exceeds the load rating of the trailer. The bag is also strong enough to support the trailing arm, hub, rim and tire so no limiting strap is needed.

The bags have internal bump stops so given the weight of our trailer can be run empty in an emergency.
 

Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
Cool extra info Martyn regarding the internal bump stop and no need for limiting straps.


Martyn said:
We are using a Firestone airbag. Our supplier offers all the brands but has only had one failure with a Firestone in 4 years. The failure was in a big rig after the driver had run it on empty.

I believe the bags are rated at 2000lbs each so a total load of 4000lbs (Mario has the specs. I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong here). This vastly exceeds the load rating of the trailer. The bag is also strong enough to support the trailing arm, hub, rim and tire so no limiting strap is needed.

The bags have internal bump stops so given the weight of our trailer can be run empty in an emergency.
 

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