Help with JK Rubicon models (from a Land Cruiser guy)

[General Automag]

We're possibly looking for a newer model Jeep JK Rubicon 4-door and would appreciate any suggestions as to what models and or engine/trans combinations to avoid.

We are Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40 owners, and once you see how over-engineered and well-built they are, it is very hard to transition to another platform, but there are simply not many truly capable four-wheel-drive model vehicles out there, especially any with a solid front axle. It really is sad to see that our 40+ year old Land Cruiser is still more reliable and trail worthy than most vehicle out there, and the "good" 70-Series Land Cruisers aren't available for sale here in the States.

I see that Jeep has upgraded the axles and that you can still get a standard transmission. Any comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[EugeneTheTJ]

You want to avoid the 3.8 found in early JK's and get the 3.6 Pentastar found in newer models (2012+).

Also please test-drive the manual transmission before committing to it. I find the one offered to feel very cheap.

Lastly, do you need a brand new vehicle and/or do you need 4 doors? LJ Rubicon is, IMHO, a much better vehicle.

 

[ZMagic97]

I would avoid the 2011s for computer mods capabilities.

As for the 3.8, if you get a US build one you'll be fine. The 3.6 had head issues...I believe it is fixed in the new models.

 

[tarditi]

I have a 2015 JK Unlimited Rubicon 6speed. Premium top, uconnect were only real options I elected.
If I had to do it all over again, I would get a hard top and automatic transmission. Uconnect rocks, and the premium top is pretty quiet, but I really only use the runrider - don't fold the whole top back very much. The 6spd manual is decent for me, but 6th gear feels like I'm going to drop it into reverse, and I much of my daily driving is a commute through the city.

I've also owned a 1986 MJ Commanche, 1993 YJ Wrangler, 1996 ZJ Grand Cherokee, 1997 TJ Wrangler Sport, 2004 TJ Wrangler Rubicon, 2005 WK Grand Cherokee (and other non-jeep 4x4s)

Avoid the 3.8 if you can, there are just too many problems to bother with the risk, IMHO. I know there are lots of people who SWEAR they've never had a problem with their 3.8, etc. but statistically, it is a terrible engine to gamble on. Auto vs manual is up to you - personally, the nostalgia isn't worth it - the auto makes for a really comfortable drive.
The consensus is that if you don't plan to get too heavy into the modification game, the Rubicon is a great platform - otherwise, go with a sport and mod away.

My rationale was to get a new one, not fuss too much with mods and add-ons, and take advantage of the latest model improvements with maximum warranty.

Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[shays4me]

I would also suggest a 12 or newer JK platform. The 2007-2011 JK had a 3.8, which was actually a very good engine overall. Chrysler used that motor in the minivans, as well as the automatic transmissions. The thing I don't like about the 3.8 is it's a dog out on the freeway, especially when coupled with the four speed automatic that is pure junk. The 12 and newer 3.6 is lighter and had 85 more horses. With the 3.73 or 4.10 factory Rubicon gearing it has a lot more pep than a 3.8 set up identically. The new 12 up auto transmission is a five speed Mercedes design. I liked it better than the stick. It's a real good match to the 3.6 which lacks a lot of low end torque. When I drove both I was used to running V-8s so I kept killing it at stop lights. so it's worth a test drive IMO. The 3.6 had some head problems (bad machining) in early build 2012's and water pumps that squeeled through early 13 models. My JKUR had the sqeeky water pump, which was warrantied. They seem to have worked those problems out as well as an automatic shifting problem with Rubicon's in 4 low. The 14 and 15's haven't had any real problems that I'm aware of and I would recomend one of those if you can afford one.

 

[Omar Brannstrom]

Auto vs manual is up to you - personally, the nostalgia isn't worth it - the auto makes for a really comfortable drive.
.

I totally agree, I love my auto and if I want I can still manually choose a gear.

Maybe the had the similar discussion 60 years ago, should I have manual wipers or automatic wipers?

 

[Omar Brannstrom]

You mention the Toyota landcruiser 70 series.

Here is a old test with a older jeep Rubicon against lC 70 and Landrover Defender

http://www.chryslergroup.co.za/jeep/interwoven/downloads/media/ShootOutOfTheLegends.pdf

 

[WininUtah]

I had a 2005 LJR and loved it, sadly it was totaled in 2012. I replaced it with a 2014 4 door Rubicon and it's been really good. I think auto is the way to go, I did more slow stuff with the LJ and the auto was great, the new auto is even better. It gets really hot where I live and saw no upside to a soft top, the Freedom Top with removable panels is really all I need.

One consideration is to get 4.10 gears, the manual comes with them but the auto are 3.73, I'm talking Rubicon. Even if you don't lift or go to larger diameter tires the 4.10s are great on hills, we have a lot of those in Utah!

 

[oscar the grouch]

3.6 and manual. i would never give up my stick for an auto. love the transmission in my rubicon. if you need an auto make sure you get the 3.6 they are pared to a 5 speed where the 3.8 was pared to a very terrible 4 speed.

 

[nwoods]

The 2004-05 LJ Rubicon with the 4.0 online 6 cylinder tractor motor is really hard to beat in terms of capability. Mine was an auto with the 4:10 gearing and 4:1 low range transfer case. I did a lot of low speed technical stuff and the auto was fantastic. No matter how good you are with a clutch, unless you actually have three legs, you'll never be a smooth on the trail or in your rig as you are with an auto. That's important in the more technical stuff.

 

[nyrikki]

I would also consider the sahara if you are doing mostly overland with the manual transmission but it depends on your needs. I found a used 3.6 based sahara with the max tow option and factory 17" wheels. This gives you the rubicon springs and shocks but with better per tank range and a transfer case that works a bit better for overland travel IMHO. I wanted Truetrac differentials which also ruled out the rubicon which is not compatible with most aftermarket diff options. I have been quite happy with my 6 speed, it does have a direct mounted shifter which does result in a lot of the "cheap" comments you see as you feel the gears working unlike most modern manuals which are cable operated and hide that movement from the user. As a classic Land Cruiser guy you will be use to that.

Unless you are going to be running 33+ tires the "max tow" 3.73 gears on the sahara will provide good milage and mixed with the 2.72:1 transfer case the gear ratios will be very usable. I have done several long trips on my jeep this year, everything from the Mojave Road to the arctic circle on the Dempster and fuel range has always been my limiter. If you are going to do more rock crawling or install 35"+ obviously the rubicon would be the better choice. But do note that a lot of the rubicon features like the locking diffs and electronic detaching swaybar do have limits on how they are allowed to be used. Also note that while the auto-transmission units do very well you cannot use them with things like the 4 speed atlas transfer case which I wanted for 2wd low for ease of turning etc... You can easily add in sway bar disconnects and lockers in the Sahara and while you may not be as smooth as the auto on the trail the clutch/neutral disconnect is disabled in 4 low so if you are not looking to mostly spend your time rock crawling that will not cause an issue on most trails. I really do appreciate the ability to run in any gear going down hill or overland with the 6 speed and it is much more adaptable than the hill decent on the auto if you want to cover ground at a reasonable rate.

It really just depends on what you want to do, I am very happy with my 3.6L 6 speed sahara and I know I would have been less happy with an auto rubicon.

 

[Mass_Mopar]

I have a 2014 rubicon 4 door, 3.6L 5 spd auto soft top and a 2015 rubicon 4 door, 3.6L 6 spd manual hardtop. Both have 4.10s. Both average 17-18 mpg. Both work incredibly well off-road.

The auto is nice. I have 45k miles on it. Only service it needed was a replacement radiator after it developed a leak around 30k (covered by warranty, no-hassle 1 day job). The manual is a different beast. It feels more like a tractor than the auto. Both motors and transmissions have been flawless.
Hard top vs soft top is a personal choice. I love both of them for different reasons. My hardtop leaks at the passenger door seal ( I'll take it in soon). Soft top has never leaked a drop. We're very happy with them. Resale is great, insurance is cheap.

 

[CCH]

My 2014 Sport has been trouble free for 20,000 miles so far. Wish the 4.10 was an option rather than just the 3.73. That is probably the single thing I'd like to change in mine. As much as I like the whole top off thing, lots of places I spend time have so much dust that the hard top is more practical.

The Rubicon makes for a "no regrets" package as there is just nothing you really need to do to it for most any use, although since it's a Jeep you certainly can. However, the Sport is awfully capable and the leaves a lot of gas money. I have not driven the Jeep manual, but having had several in other vehicles, I'm happy with the auto for all around use.

 

[SilicaRich]

I know it's older, but you could always consider 04-06 Jeep LJ models with the proven 4.0 engine. Only issue is that LJ Rubicon models often go for a premium, regardless of milage. However, I don't know if you are wanting two or four doors, the LJ is only two. Otherwise, I would only look at 2012+ models of the JK, like stated. The 3.8 is a dog compared to the 3.6 and has seemed to earn a much better reputation,

 

[GetOutThere]

Full disclosure: I own a 2012 Rubicon, auto, 4.10s, bought new. It's now on 35" tires and a 2.5" lift.

I will say that the 3.8's reputation for being less than reliable is also less than deserved.

That said, I would avoid it completely. There is no compelling reason, aside form perhaps price, to choose it over the 3.6. If you're looking at an overland vehicle with extended trips, the 2012+ model is even more desirable. Aside from the 2011 (worst of both worlds), all the 3.8 models have an interior incredibly lacking in comfort, especially for distant trips. The auto transmission is also upgraded for 2012+ with a Mercedes 5 speed, which shares application with some of their super cars. The six speed manual remained unchanged, and is rough at best.

The 4.10 gearing that the Rubicon has as an option is widely praised by the offroading and overlanding crowd. It is my opinion that this praise is overly positive. The 4.10 gearing is actually incredibly low, and realistically too low to be perfect for any off roading duty except for rock crawling. For typical overland duty with stock tire sizes, the 3.73 gear ratio is more than sufficient.

I also think that the Rubicon's locking diffs are over-praised. The JK has good traction control. Not great, but good. The BLD does a good job picking up the slack of open diffs, and for most off roading, it is more than enough. (Look up videos by Ronny Dahl on youtube if you want to see what an open diff Jeep can conquer)

In conclusion, if you want to go 33"+ tires, and/or do trails that are realistically more difficult than an open diff Jeep can handle, grab the Rubicon. Otherwise, you're throwing money away. Most people seem to undervalue the merit of the Sport/Sahara off road, and over-value that of the Rubicon.

I have zero regrets with my Rubicon purchase, and if I was making my overland purchase again today, I would again buy an Unlimited Rubicon.