Is the Tacoma enough truck?

DaveInDenver

Expedition Leader
I don't have the problem of trying to fit it in a tight garage or the city dwellers. I am also looking at value, what you can get for your dollars. The F150 seems like a better all around value to me.

As you have been telling me Dave, get the F150 and be done with it.
This has always been true, though. The reason the Hilux and compact trucks were ever popular is 95% of us do live in cities and towns. When I bought my Ranger and the 1991 later it was because I needed to park in town between MTB and 4WD trips. It's the same as it ever was. Full size trucks have been full size for their task.

The explosion of using trucks and SUV in place of cars is only in the past 10 or 15 years and the reason is there was a loophole in EPA laws that let the manufacturers continue to sell cars people wanted. These vehicles replaced the full size station wagons and sedans we all grew up riding in as kids, Impalas and Crown Vics and all of that. The market for compact and sporty Japanese and European cars has always been filled with compact Japanese and European cars.

Yeah, if I had the space and didn't need to parallel park an F150 would have made sense. Even in mid 1990s the cost between a Ranger and an F150 wasn't enormous and having the power and space would have been nice. If there's one thing car manufacturers are good at it's the up sell. They get you saying "Well it's not that much more to <this> or <that>."

And before you know it you leave with a XLT F150 with a bunch of options and a 6 year loan when you came in wanting a base level Ranger for cash or a 3 year loan. Then the marketing guys say "Look, everyone wants a full size heavily optioned truck and not poverty spec compact trucks, so make me more of those!" It's a self fulfilling circle that got us here.

With the closing of the CAFE loophole trucks may morph again back to their utilitarian uses, I dunno. I think this discussion is evidence the demand is still there for simple and appropriate sized trucks that don't cost so danged much (adjusting for inflation, remember!).
 
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Clutch

<---Pass
Even my house in Tucson that was built in the 50's I could of fit a 40' RV plus two other vehicles.

Ha! No kidding on the "Well it's not that much more..."

Had a client in yesterday who works on the auto auction here...we both agreed how silly it is to spend money on vehicles. Always comes back to that, look and look and look. But I don't want to spend any money...what we have works perfectly fine. That and once you pay a whole dollar for a vehicle (the Trooper) anything above that seems silly.
 

jasmtis

Member
So not only the fuel economy is so-so, you have little power to boot! Not that I need a ton a power, but if the engine is soft, it should be getting better fuel consumption.

The Tacoma really isn't all that small either. The track is only 2" narrower on each side compared to a F150. Not sure why guys are convinced it is a small vehicle. They aren't anymore.


Look how much bigger the 3rd gen is to the 1st. Would of been nice to have an early 80's Pickup (HiLux) in there too...then you could really see the bloat over the years. Interesting enough, is that the 1st gen beat the 3rd gen in a drag race....the 2nd gen flat out smoked it. Not that I am into drag racing anymore, but...
Yeah...the "new" midsizes don't make much sense. All these guy pleading their case that they are so much smaller....don't know about you, but I don't see it. Really no gains with them over a 1/2 ton. You loose a bit actually. down on power, less mpg, and less capacity...plus cost the same or even more than a 1/2. Not to say I don't like them...but at the end of the day they don't make much sense on the calculator or driving them.

If you really want something to run trails...buy a UTV, ATV, or Bike. Can only afford one vehilce? Buy a RCSB 1/2 ton...you can pick those up in the low $20's...dirt cheap by today's standards...as the cheapest Toyota Tacoma is closer to $30K now...
Ok let's hang on just a second here. First of all, who talks about width on an each-side basis? 4 inches. You mean the track is 4 inches narrower. 67ish vs 63ish(I'm a nerd and looked it up). It doesn't sound like much but that's actually a pretty huge difference when it comes to a width measurement. For reference, a Mazda Miata's track width is 59 inches. So the width difference between an F150 and a Tacoma is the same as the width difference between a Tacoma and a Miata. That's significant. Come on, I'm all for a discussion but there are enough misleading statistics in the world as it is, we don't need to measure width on a per-half basis.

No, it's not small. I wish it were smaller but what sort of logic brings you to 'Welp, mid size trucks have gotten too damn big! Guess I might as well buy something that's even bigger then'?

The price thing is misleading too. Full size base prices look really cheap but it doesn't really tell the whole story. Anyhow, we've been making the comparison with the 2.7 yeah? I just specced a 2.7 F150 as closely as I could to my Tacoma TRD Off-Road. So, once you have four doors, four wheel drive, the off road package and a nav system you're at a sticker price of $46,000(!). My truck on the Toyota configurator comes out to just about $35,000. Ok, domestics tend to have a bit more cash on the hood but I got mine down a bit from list too, paid more like $32.5 out the door. So even if you manage to get an entire $6000 chopped off the list price which seems like a stretch you're still paying $7500 more. And what do we get for that? Some interior volume, an entire extra MPG(EPA rating 19/23 for a 4x4 2.7 Ford vs 18/22 for a 4x4 3.5 Toyota. Can't make the capability claim and use the 4x2 fuel economy number.), 1100 extra pounds of towing capacity(1500 more if you spec the shorter rear end, but then you lose your one MPG) and 550 pounds of payload. A mid size seems to make a lot of sense on my calculator.

I would consider an F150 sized truck from 2002 or a 1st gen Tundra against my 2008 Tacoma. But when comparing you have do straight across. A 2018 Tacoma is smaller than a 2018 Tundra.
Exactly. I wish my mid size was smaller. In fact, any larger and it probably would've been enough to push me over to a JLU. It felt massive getting out of my 1991 4Runner. But mid size trucks getting too big seems like a terrible reason to buy a full size that has grown proportionally as much.
 

jasmtis

Member
That's why all the jeep trails are widening, Jeeps are widening. A JLU against a CJ2A - monstrous!
Right?? I just wanted something that was as much like my 1991 4Runner as possible but without 250,000 miles on the clock. A Wrangler Unlimited had basically an identical footprint. But if we want to talk about questionable value for money.. I live in Washington so a hard top was a requierment, the cheapest you can get a hardtop JLU is $34k. And you're not even getting A/C at that price, so the Tacoma just seemed like a way better value. The market for used JKUs is just as silly as the used Toyota 4x4 market.
 

Jnich77

Expedition Leader
So even if you manage to get an entire $6000 chopped off the list price which seems like a stretch you're still paying $7500 more.
Lol... Getting 6k off a domestic fullsize is stupid easy. They routinely run rebates larger than that here in central Florida. I got 9k off for financing with Ford, then another 1k for being military and an EMT. That was before we even started to haggle about price. At the end of the day my F150 was cheaper than a similarly equipped Tacoma.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
Contentment to me is not about getting what I want but to be happy with what I have.
I am pretty content with what I have....it starts to snow ball when I think I am tired of being cold and wet while I camp...and how do I fix that? All downhill from there. ;)

Ok let's hang on just a second here. First of all, who talks about width on an each-side basis? 4 inches. You mean the track is 4 inches narrower. 67ish vs 63ish(I'm a nerd and looked it up). It doesn't sound like much but that's actually a pretty huge difference when it comes to a width measurement. For reference, a Mazda Miata's track width is 59 inches. So the width difference between an F150 and a Tacoma is the same as the width difference between a Tacoma and a Miata. That's significant. Come on, I'm all for a discussion but there are enough misleading statistics in the world as it is, we don't need to measure width on a per-half basis.

No, it's not small. I wish it were smaller but what sort of logic brings you to 'Welp, mid size trucks have gotten too damn big! Guess I might as well buy something that's even bigger then'?

The price thing is misleading too. Full size base prices look really cheap but it doesn't really tell the whole story. Anyhow, we've been making the comparison with the 2.7 yeah? I just specced a 2.7 F150 as closely as I could to my Tacoma TRD Off-Road. So, once you have four doors, four wheel drive, the off road package and a nav system you're at a sticker price of $46,000(!). My truck on the Toyota configurator comes out to just about $35,000. Ok, domestics tend to have a bit more cash on the hood but I got mine down a bit from list too, paid more like $32.5 out the door. So even if you manage to get an entire $6000 chopped off the list price which seems like a stretch you're still paying $7500 more. And what do we get for that? Some interior volume, an entire extra MPG(EPA rating 19/23 for a 4x4 2.7 Ford vs 18/22 for a 4x4 3.5 Toyota. Can't make the capability claim and use the 4x2 fuel economy number.), 1100 extra pounds of towing capacity(1500 more if you spec the shorter rear end, but then you lose your one MPG) and 550 pounds of payload. A mid size seems to make a lot of sense on my calculator.

.
For one... I personally don't think the F150's are all that much bigger than a 3rd Gen Tacoma...but that is my perspective...yours might be different. Gotta remember I am from the construction world...I am used to driving things much much bigger. F150 is a toy to me. How many different vehicles have you driven? Me, have quite few under my belt. Biggest is a R-Series Tri-Axle Mack dump we used to have. You can also toss in a D9 Cat...but not really a road vehicle...will certainly tear one up though. ;):)

Second...you need to go look of how they are priced on the dealer lots and get off the website builders. Of course you can spec it to make your argument. but I can spec it the other way to make mine. Cheapest F150 I can find on dealer lots is in the low $20's... RCSB NA V6 4WD. Try doing that with a Tacoma.

I can get a 4WD 2.7 EcoBoost SCSB F150 for the same price...that the 4WD V6 Tacoma ACLB are going for. Both are in the low $30's in my neck of the woods. If you dig a little deeper the NA 3.3 V6 F150's are little cheaper...specs are nearly identical to the Tacoma in power, payload, towing capacity. (You can look it up) The F150 is the better buy. And you get a truck that is just "touch" bigger than the Taco...with 170º opening rear doors. Toyota really needs to add that feature to the Access Cab.

I have been driving Toyotas longer than you have been I alive. I love their trucks...but aren't the best thing out there anymore. Sorry bub.
 
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jasmtis

Member
For one... I personally don't think the F150's are all that much bigger than a 3rd Gen Tacoma...but that is my perspective...yours might be different. Gotta remember I am from the construction world...I am used to driving things much much bigger. F150 is a toy to me. How many different vehicles have you driven? Me, have quite few under my belt. Biggest is a R-Series Tri-Axle Mack dump we used to have. You can also toss in a D9 Cat...but not really a road vehicle...will certainly tear one up though. ;):)

Second...you need to go look of how they are priced on the dealer lots and get off the website builders. Of course you can spec it to make your argument. but I can spec it the other way to make mine. Cheapest F150 I can find on dealer lots is in the low $20's... RCSB NA V6 4WD. Try doing that with a Tacoma.

I can get a 4WD 2.7 EcoBoost SCSB F150 for the same price...that the 4WD V6 Tacoma ACLB are going for. Both are in the low $30's in my neck of the woods. If you dig a little deeper the NA 3.3 V6 F150's are little cheaper...specs are nearly identical to the Tacoma in power, payload, towing capacity. (You can look it up) The F150 is the better buy. And you get a truck that is just "touch" bigger than the Taco...with 170º opening rear doors. Toyota really needs to add that feature to the Access Cab.

I have been driving Toyotas longer than you have been I alive. I love their trucks...but aren't the best thing out there anymore. Sorry bub.
Quite a few more than you'd imagine, but mainly the sort of crappy performance cars other enthusiasts had in high school an college(I've taken a hard lean towards off road lately, but I like cars that can handle too). Nothing bigger than a half ton and nothing bigger than my truck off road so you've got me there. I've just been doing a lot of alternating weekends with both my vehicles this summer. The difference between the Rover and the Tacoma is proportionately very similar to the difference between a midsize and a full size in pretty much every respect(size, wieght, capacity, power) and once the pavement ends it's a more pleasant experience in every way, assuming everything's functioning properly mechanically(there's a reason the Tacoma still sees plenty of trail use lol, especially if I'm solo).

If you live in a rural area, work in construction and are looking for a toy hauler then a half ton probably does fit your needs the best. If you're a software engineer who lives in a city and are looking for something that's properly off road capable to get out exploring in the summer, take you and possibly several others to the mountain in the winter(especially if the mountain is getting dumped with snow) and grind the commute every day it doesn't make any sense. I used the config for a quick and dirty comparison, but I just used their finder tool instead. The cheapest 4x4 with a back seat(reg cab won't work for me, extended cab would be fine) within 100-miles of me is an XL listed at $34.8k from an MSRP of $37.7k. My truck was listed at $33k from an MSRP of $35k, out the door at $32.5. Even if it ended up the same or a bit cheaper out-the-door it's worse equipped so I'd be giving up a locker, ATRAC, reasonable stock underbody protection, a navigation system, a nicer stereo system, better factory tires and the ability to fit in my garage for a couple hundred pounds of towing and payload that I'm not going to use. Others have mentioned some absurd rebates from Ford:

Lol... Getting 6k off a domestic fullsize is stupid easy. They routinely run rebates larger than that here in central Florida. I got 9k off for financing with Ford, then another 1k for being military and an EMT. That was before we even started to haggle about price. At the end of the day my F150 was cheaper than a similarly equipped Tacoma.
Be careful with that, trucks are higher margin so it's a little different but I've talked numbers with a Ford dealer on both a new Focus ST and CPO Focus RS. They offer some big rebates on a financed new vehicle(I don't remember the number, not $9k, but proportianally similar when we're talking about a cheaper and lower-margin car). They can offer these because in-house financing allows Ford to set the MSRP a little artificially high and then offer people a shockingly huge rebate for signing the dotted line if(and only if) they're financing. If you dig into the numbers though: Truck has an MSRP of(say) $45k. Both Ford and the Ford dealer turn a reasonable profit if the truck's out the door for $40k, $40k would also be a fair price for the buyer. In house financing means they can offer a $10k rebate, now you're getting a hell of a lot of truck for $35k! Except you'll end up paying $6k in interest and fees over the course of the loan. So, the buyer gives Ford $41k out of pocket for the truck, who kicks a generous portion to the dealer so they push the in-house financing. Similar percentages on the ST but smaller numbers. When I made it clear I wanted to pay cash all of a sudden the out the door price was significantly higher(after spending literally half an hour shaking a number out of them). Even the recent college grad discount they were offering me vanished if I didn't want to use Ford financing.

Toyota does not do in-house financing. So you agree on the price with the dealer, and then figure out how you'll pay. The truck costs what it costs and if you're financing you can cross-shop and get yourself a better interest rate. If you pay cash, you're done. There's no such thing as free money.
 

phsycle

Adventurer
Ya know...those new shiftable autos aren't that bad (did I just say that out loud!?) :D

Have been looking at the F150 XLT Sports...(did I just say THAT outloud!!??) :p They really aren't that much more than an XL.

https://www.mhautoranch.com/new/Ford/2018-Ford-F-150-near-twin-falls-id-7635a4aa0a0e0adf706162df98df1da8.htm

Whhaaaat?? EP has been flipped upside down. Here, I buy a manual, devoid of most all techy stuff. And you're warming up to autos. With all sort of high tech gizmo doo-dads! Bizaro world...
 

Jnich77

Expedition Leader
Be careful with that, trucks are higher margin so it's a little different but I've talked numbers with a Ford dealer on both a new Focus ST and CPO Focus RS. They offer some big rebates on a financed new vehicle(I don't remember the number, not $9k, but proportianally similar when we're talking about a cheaper and lower-margin car). They can offer these because in-house financing allows Ford to set the MSRP a little artificially high and then offer people a shockingly huge rebate for signing the dotted line if(and only if) they're financing. If you dig into the numbers though: Truck has an MSRP of(say) $45k. Both Ford and the Ford dealer turn a reasonable profit if the truck's out the door for $40k, $40k would also be a fair price for the buyer. In house financing means they can offer a $10k rebate, now you're getting a hell of a lot of truck for $35k! Except you'll end up paying $6k in interest and fees over the course of the loan. So, the buyer gives Ford $41k out of pocket for the truck, who kicks a generous portion to the dealer so they push the in-house financing. Similar percentages on the ST but smaller numbers. When I made it clear I wanted to pay cash all of a sudden the out the door price was significantly higher
Oh...I know all of their tricks...lol. I took the Ford financing, enjoyed the rebate, laughed at the interest rate (3.5%), and paid the truck off months later. I'll gladly pay 6 months of interest to get 9k knocked off the price before I even start haggling.
 

DaveInDenver

Expedition Leader
I just wanted something that was as much like my 1991 4Runner as possible but without 250,000 miles on the clock.
I bet it would take some serious search time, but you'll find that statement here on ExPo several times by Clutch and myself about trucks. I held out as long as I could hoping Toyota would offer a version of my 1991 that just wasn't worn out. What I got for waiting was the 2nd gen Tacoma. I should have bought a low mileage 1st gen then and there but I didn't. I waited a few more years and lo and behold the 1st gen frames started rotting out so nice ones jumped in value and I ended up with a 2nd gen Tacoma anyway. Even that, back in 2015 if I was smarter I would have bought a brand new SR level 4 cylinder, 5 speed 2nd gen instead. Had I know Toyota was gonna punt stick shifts anyway. Coulda, shoulda, woulda.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
Quite a few more than you'd imagine, but mainly the sort of crappy performance cars other enthusiasts had in high school an college(I've taken a hard lean towards off road lately, but I like cars that can handle too). Nothing bigger than a half ton and nothing bigger than my truck off road so you've got me there. I've just been doing a lot of alternating weekends with both my vehicles this summer. The difference between the Rover and the Tacoma is proportionately very similar to the difference between a midsize and a full size in pretty much every respect(size, wieght, capacity, power) and once the pavement ends it's a more pleasant experience in every way, assuming everything's functioning properly mechanically(there's a reason the Tacoma still sees plenty of trail use lol, especially if I'm solo).

If you live in a rural area, work in construction and are looking for a toy hauler then a half ton probably does fit your needs the best. If you're a software engineer who lives in a city and are looking for something that's properly off road capable to get out exploring in the summer, take you and possibly several others to the mountain in the winter(especially if the mountain is getting dumped with snow) and grind the commute every day it doesn't make any sense. I used the config for a quick and dirty comparison, but I just used their finder tool instead. The cheapest 4x4 with a back seat(reg cab won't work for me, extended cab would be fine) within 100-miles of me is an XL listed at $34.8k from an MSRP of $37.7k. My truck was listed at $33k from an MSRP of $35k, out the door at $32.5. Even if it ended up the same or a bit cheaper out-the-door it's worse equipped so I'd be giving up a locker, ATRAC, reasonable stock underbody protection, a navigation system, a nicer stereo system, better factory tires and the ability to fit in my garage for a couple hundred pounds of towing and payload that I'm not going to use. Others have mentioned some absurd rebates from Ford:
It is all about perspective, and what we need out of vehicle. We don't have any kids...so a regular cab would work for me. But I like the extra cabs so I can toss gear bags back there. That and I like to go to the park by work, eat lunch, recline the seat and take a little nap. Getting ready to just do that. I no longer work construction...have an easy peazy job now, that gives me waaaay too much time to argue with strangers on the internet. ;):D

We really don't need any of it...we don't need trucks, we don't need 4WD...we especially don't need crew cab trucks, etc...hell, we grew up riding around in my dad's F250 regular cab with 4 of us.....we buy this stuff because we want to. You can spend as little or as much as you want to. We all love justifying our purchases to others....Hell, I know I do. ;):D
 
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