Is this a decent recovery setup?
- Thread starter camper101
- Start date
My personal opinion, knowing MANY I4WDTA "certified" instructors? Save your effort and money.
Read, read, read! Jim Allen's 4 Wheeler's Bible is a great book to start with! Many'a COI at schools is based off this book. Get active in a 4x4 group.
Anyone - and I mean anyone - can pay their fee, hang out with Burke as he jumps up and down on a loaded snatch block in front of students (it happened), take a test and get "certified". It ain't that hard.
I've taught along side "certified" instructors for years. Some are good, many have little to no real world experience working around trucks off road.
Read, read, read! Jim Allen's 4 Wheeler's Bible is a great book to start with! Many'a COI at schools is based off this book. Get active in a 4x4 group.
Anyone - and I mean anyone - can pay their fee, hang out with Burke as he jumps up and down on a loaded snatch block in front of students (it happened), take a test and get "certified". It ain't that hard.
I've taught along side "certified" instructors for years. Some are good, many have little to no real world experience working around trucks off road.
AFBronco235
Crew Chief
You should also get a copy, either digital or hardcopy, of FM 20-22 vehicle recovery manual published by the army. Lots of good info there.
southpier
Expedition Leader
anyone ever run with this on a production scale?
I will add be prepared to walk out or stay overnight, just a day pack, sleeping bag, some basic food and water. Even small cheap tent is nice if you can not sleep in vehicle. Lastly - because I see this all the time decent good foot wear - flip flops etc do not cut it if you need to walk for a few dozen K to the mainline.
Recovery is nice, being with others is nice, but sometimes you are alone so be prepared. I solo 99% of the time, I assume at some point something will go south vehicle break down, hidden hazard you know murphy,
Recovery is nice, being with others is nice, but sometimes you are alone so be prepared. I solo 99% of the time, I assume at some point something will go south vehicle break down, hidden hazard you know murphy,
Metcalf
Expedition Leader
Not that I know of. Hi-lift has a product that is similar in its ability to lift from the wheel, but I haven't seen anything in the market for the bottle jack style.
I would imagine that it would have to be pretty specific to the wheel in order to function properly and not be too cumbersome.
Jonathan Hanson
Supporting Sponsor
Not sure it's fair to cast doubt on the entire group (and I'm not affiliated), but you're correct that a mere certificate is no guarantee. Nevertheless, personal instruction is by far the best way to learn skills that might involve risk if done improperly, and I certainly wouldn't trust just any 4WD club member.
Yeah, I considered 4WD or offroad groups, but don't want to put the time in trying to figure out who values their life as much as I do and who's reckless. Plus I don't have the desire or equipment to do what most of those guys are probably into (nothing wrong with hardcore offroading, it's just not my cup of tea).
Seems like there's a lot to be learned by reading and I learn well that way, but I would really like some in-person guidance as well. Like somebody said previously, it's cumulative. And it will come over time now that I'm looking for it.
AFBronco235
Crew Chief
If your "instructor" has to say "here, hold ma beer" before each demonstration, I probably wouldn't trust him too much.
As I stated earlier, any recovery operation is going to be inherently dangerous and there is no way to completely remove all dangers from a recovery. The best you can hope for is to minimize the dangers. And the ONLY way you can do that is to just stop, take a breath and think. Use phrases like "if I do this, who could get hurt?" "What is the worst possible scenario and how can I avoid it?" "If I break that, can I still recover it?"
"Safety is no accident" isn't just a handy work place catchphrase for safety posters. Its a fact.
Please keep in mind that most recovery operations are going to happen in remote areas where medical aid is not going to be readily available. So if you don't feel safe doing that recovery, DON'T DO IT! Just leave the vehicle and get professional assistance.
As I stated earlier, any recovery operation is going to be inherently dangerous and there is no way to completely remove all dangers from a recovery. The best you can hope for is to minimize the dangers. And the ONLY way you can do that is to just stop, take a breath and think. Use phrases like "if I do this, who could get hurt?" "What is the worst possible scenario and how can I avoid it?" "If I break that, can I still recover it?"
"Safety is no accident" isn't just a handy work place catchphrase for safety posters. Its a fact.
Please keep in mind that most recovery operations are going to happen in remote areas where medical aid is not going to be readily available. So if you don't feel safe doing that recovery, DON'T DO IT! Just leave the vehicle and get professional assistance.
Join a club -as in get time behind the wheel off the highway. Never said all club members were knowledgeable instructors.
Just be careful hiring anyone to "teach" you this stuff. Unlike road racing schools or HPD - off road driving instructors do not carry credentials. And certainly don't rely on the often touted "Several years driving on foreign continents." - line. That's meaningless. It's not where one has driven but how he has driven. I4WDTA is not a credential - it's an association anyone can join.
Just be careful hiring anyone to "teach" you this stuff. Unlike road racing schools or HPD - off road driving instructors do not carry credentials. And certainly don't rely on the often touted "Several years driving on foreign continents." - line. That's meaningless. It's not where one has driven but how he has driven. I4WDTA is not a credential - it's an association anyone can join.
stioc
Expedition Leader
Another recommendation for Jim Allen's book and Bill Burke's Getting UnStuck DVD (or in person training, he really knows his stuff).
Here's my suggestion/checklist for a basic recovery kit:
1. A shovel
2. A high bottle jack (like from the Land Rovers)
3. Proper recovery points front and back
4. 25' yank (Kinetic) strap (about $60-100)
5. MaxTrax
6. Some you tube videos (particularly like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEYaTscCDIg)
Next I would think about a hand winch or a hi-lift. For a hand winch Wyeth Scott ones are pretty decent and can be used for front/back/side pulls. I prefer the hi-lift myself due to it being like a swiss-army knife. I still don't have a real winch but I haven't needed one and I've done several moderate-to-difficult trails. I don't do (nor have any interest) extreme trails where you often have a need for a real winch. Under normal circumstances you only need to move 4-8ft (usually backwards) to get yourself out of a jam so a hi-lift while slow still works. Using the hi-lift does require some care but Bill Burke's DVD covers most of it as do plenty of online articles (in fact there's a very good article right here by Bruce Elfstorm: http://expeditionportal.com/overland-journal-jack-of-all-trades/).
Here's my suggestion/checklist for a basic recovery kit:
1. A shovel
2. A high bottle jack (like from the Land Rovers)
3. Proper recovery points front and back
4. 25' yank (Kinetic) strap (about $60-100)
5. MaxTrax
6. Some you tube videos (particularly like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEYaTscCDIg)
Next I would think about a hand winch or a hi-lift. For a hand winch Wyeth Scott ones are pretty decent and can be used for front/back/side pulls. I prefer the hi-lift myself due to it being like a swiss-army knife. I still don't have a real winch but I haven't needed one and I've done several moderate-to-difficult trails. I don't do (nor have any interest) extreme trails where you often have a need for a real winch. Under normal circumstances you only need to move 4-8ft (usually backwards) to get yourself out of a jam so a hi-lift while slow still works. Using the hi-lift does require some care but Bill Burke's DVD covers most of it as do plenty of online articles (in fact there's a very good article right here by Bruce Elfstorm: http://expeditionportal.com/overland-journal-jack-of-all-trades/).
This, of course, makes tons of sense. However, I see some contradiction between "get professional assistance" and "medical aid is not readily available".
Lately I have been going much farther into uninhabited areas and there is no "professional assistance" available, period. The most likely scenario is to walk 50 KM to find a ride to then find a logging company that would like to come out. So I try hard not to get stuck and make sure my gear is all in order. And I carry an Iridium satellite messaging device (InReach).
A.
Yuman Desert Rat
Expedition Leader
My list of cool recovery gear that has yet to be used for me (with my Jeep; knock on wood) but if and when I ever need it I will be THANKFUL that its there. (Especially since I travel solo in remote areas) It's great to have the gear to help others in need when you cross paths. I recommend as many of these items as you can carry. To echo others; it's also a good idea to know how to use them all properly and safely. getting yourself purposely stuck (as a training scenario) will help you gain confidence and experience should a real situation present itself. Just my .02
Hi Lift jack with a couple of doo-dads
Sand ladders
Pull Pal
Winch
Assortment of shackles/clevises
Shovel & axe
Tow strap
OBA
Spot GPS beacon
CB / 2M radio (those are in the hundy) I still have to put together my recovery kit for that rig. Thankfully it already has a winch, though.
Every person and vehicle has its own requirements based on the capability of the vehicle and/or driver. However, I am a believer of being prepared for the worst case scenario whether traveling solo or in a group.
Hi Lift jack with a couple of doo-dads
Sand ladders
Pull Pal
Winch
Assortment of shackles/clevises
Shovel & axe
Tow strap
OBA
Spot GPS beacon
CB / 2M radio (those are in the hundy) I still have to put together my recovery kit for that rig. Thankfully it already has a winch, though.
Every person and vehicle has its own requirements based on the capability of the vehicle and/or driver. However, I am a believer of being prepared for the worst case scenario whether traveling solo or in a group.
I typically have issues with not being able to reasonably mount a winch on my vehicles. Luckily, the one I use the most for rough terrain is extremely light (stripped down 2-door sportage w/ soft top).
I have a high lift with the ORK kit and a 75' Masterpull synthetic winch line extension - I never want to use it for pulling, but can if needed. I'll be leaving the chain at home and bringing a More Power Puller with synthetic line at some point in the future; also have some Maxtrax in the mail right now.
I prefer to use a bottle jack for tire changing, but I've spent too much time digging out/high centered to pass up the easy ability to lift from a wheel. I almost always am out with a single vehicle, so I like having options.
Shovel/gloves/shackles/etc. go without saying.
I have a high lift with the ORK kit and a 75' Masterpull synthetic winch line extension - I never want to use it for pulling, but can if needed. I'll be leaving the chain at home and bringing a More Power Puller with synthetic line at some point in the future; also have some Maxtrax in the mail right now.
I prefer to use a bottle jack for tire changing, but I've spent too much time digging out/high centered to pass up the easy ability to lift from a wheel. I almost always am out with a single vehicle, so I like having options.
Shovel/gloves/shackles/etc. go without saying.
eggman918
Adventurer
We are almost always solo just the Wife,dog and myself so i carry quite a bit of gear,when i replaced the front bench seat with buckets I moved the sliding bench seat to the rear and that allows a lot of storage under and behind it everything in the first pic except the winch anchor fits there. the winch I have is an old Ramsey with the wide drum that holds 150' of 3/8' cable I also have a 50' extension for it and a hi-lift on the front and a proper first aid kit in the cab.Might be a bit over done but it all fits out of fhe way and better to have it and not need it .....
