Medical gear

Pacific Northwest yetti

Expedition Medic
Even if it was a shockable rythem. It's still in the single digits it's successful. ( percentage wise ) And once they are shocked, and you get a rythem back- they are still usually unconscious, requiring medication and a lot of times help to breath. As well, as treatment for what caused the failure in the first place.


It's not like the movies, where someone go's down, gets shocked by the AED, and just walks away. That being said, there is always an exception.


Where it's true they are cheaper, they still need immediate ALS care and support after use.

The AED, is just a part of the system.

I am not aware of any that require it, and it's not a bad idea: I think you can get a decent one for under $1500, now.

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shade

Well-known member
Even if it was a shockable rythem. It's still in the single digits it's successful. ( percentage wise ) And once they are shocked, and you get a rythem back- they are still usually unconscious, requiring medication and a lot of times help to breath. As well, as treatment for what caused the failure in the first place.


It's not like the movies, where someone go's down, gets shocked by the AED, and just walks away. That being said, there is always an exception.


Where it's true they are cheaper, they still need immediate ALS care and support after use.

The AED, is just a part of the system.

I am not aware of any that require it, and it's not a bad idea: I think you can get a decent one for under $1500, now.

Sent from somewhere remote on my BlackBerry
Yep.

I know I may sound harsh, but it really is a powerful, fascinating experience to watch someone go from saying, "I'm feeling a little better now," to full crump mode in less than a minute - with a trauma team working on them just as hard as they can. We're complicated machines.

If I had to pick one for the backcountry, I'd take a two-way satellite communication device over an AED; both would be nice, of course. There are many ways a first responder can prolong life long enough to hand a casualty off to a SAR team, but an AED is a specialized tool of limited use. AEDs are great when Advanced Life Support (ALS) is available by cell phone and already rolling in an ambulance only minutes away.

I'm just a lay person, but that's how I see it.
 

1leglance

2007 Expedition Trophy Champion, Overland Certifie
Do clubs require an AED these days when going on runs? Someone mentioned that they are getting cheaper.
No one I know of REQUIRES an AED, but they are getting cheap enough I am seriously thinking of taking one on group outings and especially to really remote areas which a shock could actually make a difference.
 

outdoornate65

Adventurer
No one I know of REQUIRES an AED, but they are getting cheap enough I am seriously thinking of taking one on group outings and especially to really remote areas which a shock could actually make a difference.
I feel that way about pulse-oximeters. $40 is not too much to pays for a very useful piece of equipment
 

AbleGuy

[Back] Roads Scholar
Not sure if I saw anyone above listing that they were carrying an epi pen 2 pak.

When I was much younger and an avid snake collector, my hiking buddy and I each carried a kit that included a tourniquet, glass syringe and needle and two vials of anti venom. Interestingly enough, it also included a tiny vial of some mixture of injectable horse blood, to use first on a bite victim to check for allergies.

Over time, carrying it in my pack so many days in the severe desert heat probably way too quickly spoiled the potency of the anti venom. Nevertheless, having it with me gave me a perhaps stupid and unrealistic, but necessary sense of peace of mind when we were wandering through rocky or thickly brushed out areas in the more remote parts of the Sonoran desert.
 
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1leglance

2007 Expedition Trophy Champion, Overland Certifie
Studies have shown most meds loose very little efficacy past their expiration dates.

I carry quite a few IV/PO meds in my kit. I try to replace them as they expire but will leave them in the kit even if expired.
I never worry about expiration dates.....I worry about heat/cold cycling and humidity. And since I only carry over the counter I toss each year on my birthday...and that cost me about $20.

I already carry an InReach for 2 way sat comm and emerg evac.....the pulse ox I have debated on but I agree for the price why not.

Oh and I totally agree that an AED is actually fairly useless in the field....shocking is fairly useless in the hospital so often :) But once the price is down to around $500 I will get one just to be a cool kid ;)
 

1leglance

2007 Expedition Trophy Champion, Overland Certifie
Not sure if I saw anyone above listing that they were carrying an epi pen 2 pak.

When I was much younger and an avid snake collector, my hiking buddy and I each carried a kit that included a tourniquet, glass syringe and needle and two vials of anti venom. Interestingly enough, it also included a tiny vial of some mixture of injectable horse blood, to use first on a bite victim to check for allergies.

Over time, carrying it in my pack so many days in the severe desert heat probably way too quickly spoiled the potency of the anti venom. Nevertheless, having it with me gave me a perhaps stupid and unrealistic, but necessary sense of peace of mind.
I stopped carrying Epi Pens when the price went over $75ea....now it is a vial and a syringe for almost nothing. Still have a script from my primary and a bit more hassle from the Pharm but all possible with a little chatting. Of course I give intramusclar injections often but it is an easy skill to teach if someone can't afford an EpiPen.
 

Wilbah

Adventurer
I stopped carrying Epi Pens when the price went over $75ea....now it is a vial and a syringe for almost nothing. Still have a script from my primary and a bit more hassle from the Pharm but all possible with a little chatting. Of course I give intramusclar injections often but it is an easy skill to teach if someone can't afford an EpiPen.
When I first had an allergic reaction to a bee sting I was prescribed the "Anakit" which was a needle syringe that had a slot in the "tube". You first pressed it to get rid of any air and some epinephrine, then turned it 90 degrees and could get shot one. The instructions had you inject it then pull the plunger back slightly, if you got blood in the vial you were supposed to pull it out and try another location. If no blood then give the shot. Then you could turn the plunger another 90 degrees and get a second shot. I had to use it a couple of times in the woods and it was fine. But I havent seen then in years- everything seems to be epipens. I guess people cant actually stick themselves with a needle, check for blood, etc. They need a spring loaded version. I do have epipens now but wonder if i should see about getting the old Anakit, if they still make them.
 

2.ooohhh

Member
Would Benadryl be a good substitute for Epi pen if given early enough for patient to swallow?
Totally depends on the speed and severity of the anaflactic reaction. I wouldn’t depend on it, that said someone who knows they have a strong allergic reaction potential to something such as shellfish SHOULD be carrying a personal epi-pen.


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Pacific Northwest yetti

Expedition Medic
if the airway is closing, good luck getting it down.

Epi is fast acting, and also only lasts about 20 mind, depending on the severity.

Benadryl takes about 20 mins to kick in , and lasts a few hours.

We will use Epi, first and then use a Benadryl IV after that. The patient also needs to be removed from the source of the allergen.

On Epi-pens- you can get about 4 doses out of them, but you have to cut the pen open.


https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(13)00094-X/fulltext



I am in to0 much of a remote area for videos, but you can find them on youtube for multi dose epi pens.
 
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Runbrave

New member
I did not know about the multiple doses available in epipens! Solid info. Thanks.


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