New bike suggestions

[shade]

I started a thread on the new 2020 KTM 390 Adventure in the main chat section, but thought I'd ask about it here, too.

2020 KTM 390 Adventure

I didn't see this bike being discussed. I'd like to see Overland Journal post a review to compare with others that are popping up. https://www.ktm.com/us/travel/390-adventure/ https://www.cycleworld.com/ktm-390-adventure/...

expeditionportal.com

I'm new to riding, with my only experience on motorized two wheeled transport being a 49cc scooter I broke in for a friend - so, no experience .
I'm average height & weight, so fitment isn't a major concern. Given the price range I'm shopping, I'd rather buy new.

Here's what I think will matter to me:

Street legal & off-pavement capable - A 50/50 mix in capabilities sounds about right.
Useful for multi-day road trips - I'd like it to be comfortable enough to string together at least three 300-500 mile days on the highway.
Fairly light - I don't want a heavy bike, and I also want to be able to carry it on a hitch hauler, so under 400 lbs.
Quality construction - I want to avoid breakdowns on the trail.
Rider aids to keep me in one piece - Like I said, I'm new. ABS, traction control, Quickshifter, slipper clutch, etc.
Reasonably priced - For perspective, I consider the KTM 390 ADV to be reasonable at $6200.

I'm considering a bike like the KTM because it seems to be a good place to start, but it still offers some features that would work well for me as I take on more demanding rides. I'm open to other suggestions, though. I have a few local bike dealers, and I'd like to stick with one of these makes: KTM, Honda, Kawasaki, or Yamaha. Of the three Japanese makes, what compares favorably to the KTM for my list?

 

[MTVR]

I like how you're thinking.

May I ask if you have had any competent professional rider training?

 

[shade]

I like how you're thinking.

May I ask if you have had any competent professional rider training?

Thanks.

I have no training. I know some MSF instructors, and I'd run through their courses. I'm also friends with a retired dirt racer that will happily point out all I'm doing wrong while riding together. There are many poorly maintained dirt roads near me for self-guided practice in standing a bike back up, too. I figure that money spent on training is the best insurance I can buy, and regularly riding will help refine those new skills.

I need to find out the best way to go about getting a bike & license in my area. Reminds me of getting a commercial driver's license, without having a commercial vehicle available for the exam.

 

[MTVR]

Well, if you're open to suggestion, I'd recommend starting with the MSF BRC (Basic Rider Course). That teaches some important skills, like counter-steering and their "SIPDE" threat management system (sort of like a gunfighter's OODA-loop).

Motorcycle riding is a very counterintuitive skill set- almost everything works the exact opposite way that lay people would assume that it does, so apart from competent professional rider training, the chances of just "figuring it out" are just about zero.

 

[MTVR]

...and as I always teach people when it comes to firearms and motorcycle riding, practice does NOT make perfect. It is only PERFECT practice that makes perfect. After all, we do not rise to the occassion- we fall to our level of training.

 

[shade]

I'm definitely open to suggestions. I was just thinking that riding has some similarities to firearms training, in that bad habits can lead to very bad results. I'd rather start with a clean slate than have to unlearn things.

The BRC is offered regularly nearby, so I'd start with that and continue through some other MSF courses. I helped a guy on a BMW air up a few years ago in Death Valley, and he mentioned some off-road courses I might look into once I have some proficiency and experience.

 

[jkam]

KTM makes some great motorcycles.
KTM are race bred, so maintaining one is more work than just about any other option.
If you are OK with that, then go for it.
I'd consider the Yamaha 250 an option with much less maintaining to do to keep it on the trails or road.
A 250 will be plenty for you to begin with, and overall, plenty to keep for a long time with what you want to do.

 

[shade]

KTM makes some great motorcycles.
KTM are race bred, so maintaining one is more work than just about any other option.
If you are OK with that, then go for it.
I'd consider the Yamaha 250 an option with much less maintaining to do to keep it on the trails or road.
A 250 will be plenty for you to begin with, and overall, plenty to keep for a long time with what you want to do.

Which Yamaha 250?

The KTM 390 need an oil change every 4650 miles, and after break-in, valve check/adjustment every 9300 miles or so.
I found the service schedule for the similar 2019 390 Duke, and it doesn't look that bad.
How does it compare to other makes?

Speaking of maintenance, what else is typically required on bikes of this class?

Fluids - Engine oil, brake, coolant
Filters/screens - Engine oil & air
Spark plug
Chain lube
Brake pads & rotors
Check torque & play
Adjusting for cable stretch
Tires
Truing spoke wheels
General cleaning

Anything else?

 

[calicamper]

Thanks.

I have no training. I know some MSF instructors, and I'd run through their courses. I'm also friends with a retired dirt racer that will happily point out all I'm doing wrong while riding together. There are many poorly maintained dirt roads near me for self-guided practice in standing a bike back up, too. I figure that money spent on training is the best insurance I can buy, and regularly riding will help refine those new skills.

I need to find out the best way to go about getting a bike & license in my area. Reminds me of getting a commercial driver's license, without having a commercial vehicle available for the exam.

Take a class I’m serious it makes a big difference. Its worth every penny. I took a tough class 1/2 of the 24 were flunked out by day 2 on 250’s. I went right to yr around daily 65 mile commuting after that. 65,000 miles on 2wheels between 2003 and 2009.
The small KTM seems to have a good combo of things. Check service requirements thats where many of these smaller bikes fail miserably. Like the Honda 400 needs valve adjustments far too often compared to other options.

300-500 mile days are not enjoyable on many of the small “dirt focused duel sport” bikes unless you get a street bike that can do dirt which case 300-500 miles with some light dirt road action is doable.

I put riding on hold till my kids are headed to College the closest I get is mountain biking right now. But I’ll go super light when I go back. Like 250-400cc ish and look at the MT bike packer setup. My buddy has a 3 day mt bike kit that weighs 8 lbs. I figure taking that type of approach I can ride a 250 easily and out trail ride my buddies on their heavy packed duel sports.

Given I’m light it easily goes on a rack and my truck can do big comfortable pavement miles?with AC and Heat.

 

[shade]

300-500 mile days are not enjoyable on many of the small “dirt focused duel sport” bikes unless you get a street bike that can do dirt which case 300-500 miles with some light dirt road action is doable.

That seems to be where the new KTM fits, in that it can maintain highway speeds without struggling, has reasonable fuel endurance, and still has sufficient capabilities for off-pavement riding. I haven't found a lot of competition for it, but I've been reading speculation that the 390A will prompt responses from other manufacturers in the next year or two.

If I ever got to the point where I wanted to do more technical dirt riding, I'd add a lighter dual sport better suited to the task. If I wanted to do serious on-road miles, I'd step up to a bigger ADV bike. For it's features, power, and weight, the KTM 390A sits squarely between those two types of bikes. I can see an argument for modifying a dual sport to create an even better bike for the job, but I'm pretty sure it'd cost more by the time I upsized the tank, upgraded the seat, changed up the suspension for better road manners, improved lighting, etc. Cost isn't the main factor for me, but it's still a consideration.

Whatever I get, I really do want to keep the weight down. When I see people horsing heavy bikes around on trails, I have no desire to ditch my truck for that experience. Otoh, I've watched people cheerfully bound down trails on lighter bikes while I'm tossed around in my truck at half the speed - that's what I'm after. I also need a lighter bike if it's going on a hitch hauler, which I can definitely see in my future. I want to use my Tacoma as a base camp for a week of riding in the Sierras, San Juans, Death Valley, etc.

 

[calicamper]

That seems to be where the new KTM fits, in that it can maintain highway speeds without struggling, has reasonable fuel endurance, and still has sufficient capabilities for off-pavement riding. I haven't found a lot of competition for it, but I've been reading speculation that the 390A will prompt responses from other manufacturers in the next year or two.

If I ever got to the point where I wanted to do more technical dirt riding, I'd add a lighter dual sport better suited to the task. If I wanted to do serious on-road miles, I'd step up to a bigger ADV bike. For it's features, power, and weight, the KTM 390A sits squarely between those two types of bikes. I can see an argument for modifying a dual sport to create an even better bike for the job, but I'm pretty sure it'd cost more by the time I upsized the tank, upgraded the seat, changed up the suspension for better road manners, improved lighting, etc. Cost isn't the main factor for me, but it's still a consideration.

Whatever I get, I really do want to keep the weight down. When I see people horsing heavy bikes around on trails, I have no desire to ditch my truck for that experience. Otoh, I've watched people cheerfully bound down trails on lighter bikes while I'm tossed around in my truck at half the speed - that's what I'm after. I also need a lighter bike if it's going on a hitch hauler, which I can definitely see in my future. I want to use my Tacoma as a base camp for a week of riding in the Sierras, San Juans, Death Valley, etc.

Even 150 mile pavement day on a 650cc commuter isn’t that fun. I’d take a day riding trails on a light trail bike or an over night out or two away from the base camp over doing pavement miles On anything smaller than a 650. And yes I see zero point in bashing a truck etc through those places when even an electric MT Bike will offer more time to enjoy the views and faster more fun running the trail.

 

[shade]

Even 150 mile pavement day on a 650cc commuter isn’t that fun. I’d take a day riding trails on a light trail bike or an over night out or two away from the base camp over doing pavement miles On anything smaller than a 650. And yes I see zero point in bashing a truck etc through those places when even an electric MT Bike will offer more time to enjoy the views and faster more fun running the trail.

Good to have that perspective on distance. Whatever I get, I'd set some reasonable goals before committing to 1000 miles of highway riding. I've been blown out by tanker trucks on my bicycle, so I have some experience with being a bug on the road.

 

[Graton]

Lots of great suggestions on this thread, but a one question regarding use that I didn't see in your posts. Are you traveling alone? I recently sold my Suzuki DL650 - too heavy to throw on a hitch carrier - and most of my travels are with my wife and old corgi. Thought about a Yamaha XT250 - light enough to throw on a hitch, but a bit underpowered to ride two-up on the trails. The KTM 390 would not be fun for long days on the road, even my DL650 was not comfortable after a few hours on the road and highway miles aren't fun on these bikes. As Calicamper said, an electric off-road bike is a lot of fun - my wife rented one with some friends while we were explorer Anza Borrego - I stayed back with the corgi and explored some trails. There is no one bike that fits all your needs. If I were doing a lot of highway miles the KTM 390 is too small, but a great solo bike for the trails. As other have mentioned, it does require more maintenance than Yamahas or Hondas. If I were doing solo trips with my Tacoma and wanted something fun to ride around on the trails, I would get the Yamaha XT250 or WR250 (a bit more money, but more capable on trails). I say all this as someone who is getting older - when I was in my 20s, I could spend all day on any motorcycle (or bicycle) and feel great at the end of the day - not so much any more.

 

[shade]

Are you traveling alone?

Yes, I'll be riding solo on the bike, and probably going solo for trips of any length, including while using a hitch hauler. I have a small open trailer that I'd use if a few friends wanted to tow their bikes on a trip with me.

I'm not so sure this KTM has much higher maintenance requirements than similar bikes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the main services are oil change & valve lash checking. I found most of this in manuals published here:

ManualsLib - Makes it easy to find manuals online!

www.manualslib.com

In miles:
KTM 390 ADV: Oil/4650, Valves/9300 (based on 390 Duke - same engine)

Honda CRF 450L: Oil/600, Valves/1800

Yamaha XT250: Oil/3000, Valves/3000

Suzuki DR-Z400S: Oil/3500, Valves/15,000

Kawasaki KLX 250: Oil/7500 , Valves/7500

I've been looking at electric options. There are a few that I find interesting, but aside from performance/endurance concerns, I'm still concerned about long term durability and company stability.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Buying a new bike for your first one is just asking for an expensive lesson.

My advice (from someone who has been riding for 33 years) buy a well used bike. Accidents will matter less and you'll have less stress and more fun. You're gunna drop it, you're gunna low side it, and you're probably going to tag a tree... Might as well do it on an inexpensive bike that's cheaper to repair.

Buying a bike new is kinda silly when you can get used ones with very few miles muuuch cheaper.