New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

soflorovers

Active member
Its still a LR that will need dealer computer access unless they sell an Iphone app that lets you reset, isolate or disable failed systems until you finish your Moab trip and return to Salt Lake, Austin, NewYork, San Francisco etc. because those are the only locations that will have dealers with LR service capability.
Little known fact around here: I'm also a massive Jeep fan. I actually used to own a YJ and my grandpa's last 4 daily drivers have been Gladiators and JL Wranglers (Demos from a dealer). I personally have racked up a few hundred, if not thousand miles in his Jeeps. With that said, I think you underestimate the amount of electronics on a modern JL. A brief google search will reveal that the JL has had its fair share of electronic issues that would strand it out in the middle of nowhere. I understand that doesn't make it OK for an LR to do the same, but glass houses and all....




 

Todd n Natalie

Observer
Meaning the people who are still going on about reliability. Its like I said if you want reliability buy a Toyota. I personally have had decent luck reliability wise with LR’s. IMO life is too short to drive boring vehicles.
I guess I am the exception here, because out of the 50-ish vehicles I've owned, the worst one as far as living with it as a dd and reliability was the 80 series Land Cruiser I had. (1991 model)

That won't swear me off Toyotas. Could be that I just had a poorly maintained example or a lemon...

Flip side... 2nd worse vehicle? Jaguar XJ6 Sovereign. Hasn't sworn me of Jags. I keep suggesting my wife replace her current vehicle with an XE AWD....
 

DieselRanger

Well-known member
Hi - that's me. I like discussing reliability.

I like discussing reliability because I like remote touring, and for remote touring reliability matters.

Land Rover has put itself in a pickle with Defender.

On one hand, Land Rover has billed and spec'd Defender as a remote touring vehicle--a uniquely capable touring wagon in the U.S. market. On the other hand, the only thing reliable about Land Rover's vehicles, according to every objective review I've come across, seems to be their unreliability.

Discussion of that great dichotomy on this forum, and on this particular thread, is clearly in bounds--even if it upsets brand loyalists, which it obviously does.
To be fair, the only objection about modern Land Rovers, if you read the articles, is the fear that they may be unreliable. Reliability is the Original Sin of Lucas that has yet to be atoned. And of those that have been reported on, it's largely - you may have guessed this on your own - complaints about the Infotainment - it reboots mid-drive, it's laggy, glitchy, etc. Yet terrible reliability in modern Subarus and Volvos don't seem to blemish their reputation as brick sh*thouses that happily run for a million miles. I've owned both, and both were nightmares compared to my Land Rover AND the VW Touareg it replaced, which was notoriously unreliable, both mechanically and electrically.
 

TexasTJ

Climbing Nerd
Funny how they literally call the Defender a "softer, less rugged vehicle to attain greater general appeal among buyers"

That statement has some merit.
I like the New Defender a lot especially the 90 and I like the Wrangler. The Wrangler and Defender share the same DNA and were both originally tools. While Both have evolved to have better manners the Jeep has stayed truer to the core. That is not a bad thing Land Rover built a Different vehicle for a different use. They Both can tour they both and wheel. The Jeeps going to be better in the big rough stuff, the Defender will be better for the long hall. They can do both, they just have different specialties.
 
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JackW

Explorer
My sister in law just traded her Subaru in on a BMW X1 after a world of continuing electrical and mechanical issues. Don't even mention a Subaru around her if you don't want a ten minute tirade on Subarus, the dealers and no support from the manufacturer.

Here's an excerpt of her troubles with the Subaru - I think it had some sort of demonic possession going on...

it was a lemon. I got locked in it five times locked out many times like fifteen or more. The radio would come on BBC full blast while driving and I had to pull over and stop and turn off car to turn off radio. That happens often.
The front right tire would pop if I went over rough road spots it or just about anything. I bought 6 tires in a year and half. On and on. Subaru dealership would not even look at it. They would say that it needed to be happening when I brought it in.

Here's a further clarification of Faye's Subaru issues - brand new Impreza. I would never buy a Subaru. I tried for two years to get them to fix it. Problems started the first month

Gladly my Discovery 5 has only had one small manufacturing defect (a pinhole leak in the A/C condensor) and two software updates (one of which was the upgrade to Android carplay) in the three years and 35,000 miles I've owned it.
 
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T-Willy

Well-known member
To be fair, the only objection about modern Land Rovers, if you read the articles, is the fear that they may be unreliable. .
False.

1. JD Powers -- lowest 2020 dependability rating in the U.S. Link: https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2020-us-vehicle-dependability-study

2. OSV -- This review of multiple consumer surveys concludes, categorically, that "Land Rover and Range Rover are not reliable. It might be painful to admit it, but the evidence is clear to see." Link: https://www.osv.ltd.uk/how-reliable-are-land-rover-and-range-rover/

3. Repair Pal - "The Land Rover Reliability Rating is 2.5 out of 5.0, which ranks it 31st out of 32 for all car brands." Link: https://repairpal.com/reliability/land+rover

4. Consumer Reports -- concludes bluntly, "Reliability remains a serious concern." Link: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/land-rover/

5. Reliability Index -- consistently terrible ratings across Land Rover models. Link: https://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/132

6. Consumer Affairs -- This litany of consumer horror stories sort of sealed the deal. Failed engines. Failed brakes. Failed electronics. Poor dealer support. On and on. And, all on relatively new and recent vehicles. Link: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/land_rover.html?page=3#sort=top_reviews&filter=none
 

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JackW

Explorer
Owned 50 vehicles?
You’re 200 years old?

When did you even had time to actually drive any of them, let alone maintain them, between buying and selling?
Hell I'm a 68 year old youngster and I've owned over 85 vehicles. It depends what your priorities are. Nineteen of those have been Land Rovers and I do almost all of the work on my cars, including full restorations. Except for the Chevy pickup trucks, the Corvairs, and the Cadillac most of them have been some sort of Eurotrash. There have been a couple of Japanese motorcycles and one boring Honda CR-V but a lot of weird stuff has lived in my driveway.

I'm a gearhead at heart,
 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Hell I'm a 68 year old youngster and I've owned over 85 vehicles. It depends what your priorities are. Nineteen of those have been Land Rovers and I do almost all of the work on my cars, including full restorations. Except for the Chevy pickup trucks, the Corvairs, and the Cadillac most of them have been some sort of Eurotrash. There have been a couple of Japanese motorcycles and one boring Honda CR-V but a lot of weird stuff has lived in my driveway.

I'm a gearhead at heart,
LR owner thats had more LR’s than total vehicles I’ll ever own. Pretty much says it right there. LOL
 

Doron

Adventurer
Hell I'm a 68 year old youngster and I've owned over 85 vehicles. It depends what your priorities are. Nineteen of those have been Land Rovers and I do almost all of the work on my cars, including full restorations. Except for the Chevy pickup trucks, the Corvairs, and the Cadillac most of them have been some sort of Eurotrash. There have been a couple of Japanese motorcycles and one boring Honda CR-V but a lot of weird stuff has lived in my driveway.

I'm a gearhead at heart,
By rough estimation you change cars almost every 6 month if you started at age of 17.
That’s not the way to actually learn about relayability or what the true nature of a truck in such short time.
If you held to some more then the others, then They’re the relevant experience, not all.

No one man can seriously maintain such number.

For myself, I don’t count as “personal experience” every car that wasn’t in my use or owned for less then a full year that can minimally represent at least one service interval.
 
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JackW

Explorer
By rough estimation you change cars almost every 6 month if you started at age of 17.
That’s not the way to actually learn about relayability or what the true nature of a truck in such short time.
If you held to some more then the others, then They’re the relevant experience, not all.

No one man can seriously maintain such number.

For myself, I don’t count as “personal experience” every car that wasn’t in my use or owned for less then a full year that can minimally represent at least one service interval.
Your assumptions are just so Wrong. Which rule assumed you can own only one car at a time? For instance right now I own five cars and one motorcycle. One of my Land Rovers I bought in 1973, it's a 1967 Series IIA that I am currently doing a frame up restoration on. My 1966 109 diesel wagon is the one I bought in 1978, currently down with a broken gearbox but will be running again this summer. I bought my Defender 90 in 1995 and the Discovery 5 in 2017. The Miata was bought.new last year.

I had a 356A Porsche Carrera that I bought in 1971 when I was nineteen years old. I sold it in 2018 at an auction in Pebble Beach after owning it for 47 years. I was a mechanic for a few years, bought a lot of cars for cheap, fixed them and resold them, sometimes made a little money in the process. At times I've had eight cars in my possession (plus the time when I had 14 motorcycles). I've bought cars for $50 - $500 more times than I can remember. It's a hobby, a passion and what I do for fun. I don't drink, smoke or care about sports involving a ball. I had a great job working as a manufacturing engineer at Lockheed and except for my hobby i'm generally frugal and conservative.

Yes there were a few cars I bought and woke up a week later going what the hell was I thinking? Sometimes " I haven't owned one of those - yet" is not a good reason to lay down a couple of hundred dollars and drag something home but it's all educational. And in a weird way fun.

It's what gearheads do. My grandfather raced cars in the 1920's. My dad's first car was a Ford V-8 powered quarter midget race car. Back in the 1970's cars were cheap, a Porsche Speedster could be bought for $600.

I paid $275 for the first car I bought, a 4 year old 1965 Corvairs Corsa convertible with the 180 HP turbocharged engine. It had dropped a valve so I had to drag it home, pull the engine and rebuild it before I ever drove it.

The ex-Dean Jeffries 1956 Porsche Carrera that I owned for 47 years and did a full restoration on. It was on the show field at the Amelia Island Concours in 2011, 2016 and 2018.

PorscheatBulloch3-X3.jpg
 
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Doron

Adventurer
Your assumptions are just so Wrong. Which rule assumed you can own only one car at a time? For instance right now I own five cars and one motorcycle. One of my Land Rovers I bought in 1973, it's a 1967 Series IIA that I am currently doing a frame up restoration on. My 1966 109 diesel wagon is the one I bought in 1978, currently down with a broken gearbox but will be running again this summer. I bought my Defender 90 in 1995 and the Discovery 5 in 2017. The Miata was bought.new last year.

I had a 356A Porsche Carrera that I bought in 1971 when I was nineteen years old. I sold it in 2018 at an auction in Pebble Beach after owning it for 47 years. I was a mechanic for a few years, bought a lot of cars for cheap, fixed them and resold them, sometimes made a little money in the process. At times I've had eight cars in my possession (plus the time when I had 14 motorcycles). I've bought cars for $50 - $500 more times than I can remember. It's a hobby, a passion and what I do for fun. I don't drink, smoke or care about sports involving a ball. I had a great job working as a manufacturing engineer at Lockheed and except for my hobby i'm generally frugal and conservative.

Yes there were a few cars I bought and woke up a week later going what the hell was I thinking? Sometimes " I haven't owned one of those - yet" is not a good reason to lay down a couple of hundred dollars and drag something home but it's all educational. And in a weird way fun.

It's what gearheads do. My grandfather raced cars in the 1920's. My dad's first car was a Ford V-8 powered quarter midget race car. Back in the 1970's cars were cheap, a Porsche Speedster could be bought for $600.

I paid $275 for the first car I bought, a 4 year old 1965 Corvairs Corsa convertible with the 180 HP turbocharged engine. It had dropped a valve so I had to drag it home, pull the engine and rebuild it before I ever drove it.

The ex-Dean Jeffries 1956 Porsche Carrera that I owned for 47 years and did a full restoration on. It was on the show field at the Amelia Island Concours in 2011, 2016 and 2018.

View attachment 587733
O.k..
Now it’s much more clear, and logic.
First of all, I can only wish I would have so much time for my passion- seams like you played it right.
We have different criteria for what we call “owned or use”.
 

JackW

Explorer
If it runs, I drive it. The advantage of having multiple cars is you can jump in whatever is the most fun for that particular trip. There were a few that I never got to drive because something shinier, more interesting or more desirable popped up. I had an MGA roadster project that I bought from a guy who had gotten in over his head and I dragged all of the pieces home and started putting it back together. The owner of a foreign car shop who had worked at MG during the early 1960's when the MGA was rolling down the assembly line heard I had the car and bought it from before I got a chance to finish it. He never thought as a poor lad working in the factory that he would own one of the cars he was assembling. Ken was so pleased to get his boyhood dream fulfilled - how could I refuse? Plus I needed cash for the 911 I was restoring at that time.
 
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