New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

A.J.M

Explorer
I can’t believe they haven’t fitted the pinnacle of electrical perfection from Lucas.
As that’s what the old ones had, and was perfect. As long as you got home before dark.

also, I believe in washing everything I own with a hose. My car, dog, house, clothes, everything. Can’t believe you can’t do that with the new one.

Plus, it’s not going to be fixed with bale twine and something, so that makes it rubbish for the farmer or people with an unhealthy obsession with sheep and sticking them in cars...
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
Your next generation LR will have printed circuit panels (dash, exterior, etc) that are essentially display and I/O. It will require on-board solar panels or home plug-in as the current draw will increase over today's architecture, killing batteries.

Lightweight Electronics in Simplified Architecture (LESA)

"......The technology, which uses circuits printed onto non-metal materials, could also vastly reduce the size and weight of in-car electronics, making it possible to add far more systems than would normally be practical, including extra displays and solar panels to keep it all powered. .........."

 

blackangie

Well-known member
Your next generation LR will have printed circuit panels (dash, exterior, etc) that are essentially display and I/O. It will require on-board solar panels or home plug-in as the current draw will increase over today's architecture, killing batteries.

Lightweight Electronics in Simplified Architecture (LESA)

"......The technology, which uses circuits printed onto non-metal materials, could also vastly reduce the size and weight of in-car electronics, making it possible to add far more systems than would normally be practical, including extra displays and solar panels to keep it all powered. .........."

You miss the point, its extremely light, so you can add more gear, what real 4x4er doesn't want solar panels.

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mpinco

Expedition Leader
You miss the point, its extremely light, so you can add more gear, what real 4x4er doesn't want solar panels.

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"...... extra displays and solar panels to keep it all powered. .........."

The instrument panel will be lighter but total vehicle complexity will increase significantly as interior surfaces are now printed circuit to add displays, controls, lighting, and color change capabilities. Similar to distributing smartphone displays around the vehicle that consume significant power for small devices. A lightly used vehicle would drain the standard battery.
 
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gatorgrizz27

Active member
I can’t believe they haven’t fitted the pinnacle of electrical perfection from Lucas.
As that’s what the old ones had, and was perfect. As long as you got home before dark.

also, I believe in washing everything I own with a hose. My car, dog, house, clothes, everything. Can’t believe you can’t do that with the new one.

Plus, it’s not going to be fixed with bale twine and something, so that makes it rubbish for the farmer or people with an unhealthy obsession with sheep and sticking them in cars...
And what a shame it is. I once fixed my Discovery I with a gum wrapper. Brake pedal switch failed and wouldn’t let me take it out of park. Diagnosed it in the dark, unplugged and jumped the switch with a gum wrapper, and drove away. Can’t see doing that with the black box brains of the new Defender. Of course it does seem I was always chasing some intermittent electrical problem...
 

blackangie

Well-known member
"...... extra displays and solar panels to keep it all powered. .........."

The instrument panel will be lighter but total vehicle complexity will increase significantly as interior surfaces are now printed circuit to add displays, controls, lighting, and color change capabilities. Similar to distributing smartphone displays around the vehicle that consume significant power for small devices. A lightly used vehicle would drain the standard battery.
Its interesting, im guna keep an open mind about it.

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blackangie

Well-known member
And what a shame it is. I once fixed my Discovery I with a gum wrapper. Brake pedal switch failed and wouldn’t let me take it out of park. Diagnosed it in the dark, unplugged and jumped the switch with a gum wrapper, and drove away. Can’t see doing that with the black box brains of the new Defender. Of course it does seem I was always chasing some intermittent electrical problem...
You won't need to, that is the point.

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mpinco

Expedition Leader
You won't need to, that is the point.

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LOL. I assume you are joking. Reliability is a function of the number of components in a system. While component reliability has improved, the sheer number of components has risen significantly. Failure rate of a system is a function of an exponential equation that has as it power factor, the component count. Electrical components are more reliable than older mechanical systems but will still fail at some point as the service life comes into play. Take for example a smartphone. The only replaceable item is the battery. If anything else fails the device is likely a throw away / recycle.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
And what a shame it is. I once fixed my Discovery I with a gum wrapper. Brake pedal switch failed and wouldn’t let me take it out of park. Diagnosed it in the dark, unplugged and jumped the switch with a gum wrapper, and drove away. Can’t see doing that with the black box brains of the new Defender. Of course it does seem I was always chasing some intermittent electrical problem...
Yup, been there - done that, on my 98 Discovery. After cussing and wondering what happened and a ah-ha moment, I think I disassembled the switch on the beach, applied a temporary fix and strapped it all back together with something handy. The fix worked the rest of the weekend. The old saying - 'Keep-it-simple' is a good feature of older vehicles.
 
I'd have to care more about this just to sneak up on ambivalence.

My round headlights and flat windscreens will last as long as I will...thanks Solihull.
 

blackangie

Well-known member
LOL. I assume you are joking. Reliability is a function of the number of components in a system. While component reliability has improved, the sheer number of components has risen significantly. Failure rate of a system is a function of an exponential equation that has as it power factor, the component count. Electrical components are more reliable than older mechanical systems but will still fail at some point as the service life comes into play. Take for example a smartphone. The only replaceable item is the battery. If anything else fails the device is likely a throw away / recycle.
Facts show otherwise..LR dependability despite increasing complexity has improved by 180% over the last 20 years in the US and even more in the UK.
And that is only up until 2016 model year.

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blackangie

Well-known member
Yup, been there - done that, on my 98 Discovery. After cussing and wondering what happened and a ah-ha moment, I think I disassembled the switch on the beach, applied a temporary fix and strapped it all back together with something handy. The fix worked the rest of the weekend. The old saying - 'Keep-it-simple' is a good feature of older vehicles.
The problem is with the older vehicles they did not engineer and test them to the level they do now, because of this even though they are less complex they do breakdown quite often I know this owning a Range Rover classic, I love it but it's the truth.

New defender has been tested more than any other Land Rover vehicle both at factory level and in the real world.

62000 tests for engineering sign off.

1.2million km of testing.. however they're still testing production prototypes in the UK as we speak.


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mpinco

Expedition Leader
Facts show otherwise..LR dependability despite increasing complexity has improved by 180% over the last 20 years in the US and even more in the UK.
And that is only up until 2016 model year.

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The quality of all vehicles has increased over the years. JLR is still at the bottom. Do they use parts sourced from the same suppliers as those at the top? Yes. Are LR's more complex than the ones at the top of the survey's? Yes.
 
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