New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

Pilat

Tossing ewoks on Titan
Pedestrian regulation has been of limited success and may actually be contributing to deaths. The slope of the front ends simply launches the pedestrian higher in the air. The end result, the secondary impact of hitting the ground/tree/lampole is the 'killer'. Kind of like the latest craze in baseball stats, launch angle.

The real issue at least here are the homeless who are mentally ill, drugged or drunk or all all of the above stepping directly into traffic. The highest pedestrian/vehicle incident rate correlates with high local homeless density. But we are off topic other than regulation having unintended consequences and limited effectiveness.

Edit add: The other category for pedestrian stats is ............. cell phones, drivers not paying attention. Where are we headed with that 'feature'? More technology to distract the driver.
Sure. And you'll be better off not wearing your seatbelt cause it allows you be "thrown clear".
 

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blackangie

Well-known member
Facts aren't angry.

It's a brush bar. It will serve its purpose as a brush bar.

It is clearly, to those who understand the difference, not a bull bar. Let's consider a true example of one and quote this very publication:


My opinion that it's ugly is not angry. It's just ugly. The angry eyes are not unique. I believe tasteless Jeep owners invented it long ago. I didn't claim heat exchangers are bad. They are ruinously placed.
It came across very angry, and factless, have you tried to bend 50mm tube?

The heat exchangers are no more ruinously placed than a radiator, ive actually seen a photo of them. Its a fantastic design, i wouldn't buy a new 4x4 without separate coolers now after having them on my RRC

Im guessing you would put them in front of the rad, no sorry gets too hot, under? Gets to dirty, ontop of engine, gets to hot, in rad, gets to hot. Next to rad, high and close to rad spot on.

Even with the D5 design we dont hear reports of people smashing them em, lucky8 bashing that thing all over the states.

Defender design is different and brings them higher closer and angled the side to minimize and chance of damage.

Any aftermarket bar will have to allow venting to pass.

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mpinco

Expedition Leader
Any stats or links to back this up, not that it matters, if its true regs will change in time.........
Unusually high number of pedestrians - mostly homeless - killed in 2018 in Colorado Springs

"......Forty-eight people died on roadways across the city in 2018 — most of them drivers and passengers, and some of them bicyclists. An alarming number of them were pedestrians, most of whom were homeless, police investigators say. ..........

.......At least half of the homeless pedestrians killed in 2018, including Russell and Cordtz, were using drugs or alcohol at the time of their deaths. ...............
"

Colorado Springs does a very good job with the homeless compared to other urban areas. If it's not drugs or alcohol it is mental illness. A small percent live homeless by choice.

Regulating vehicle frontal design is not going to address the issue. Like I said, it is the second impact and launch angle that kills, not the vehicle.
 

blackangie

Well-known member
Compared to a Rockware bumper on my D1 the factory grill guards are thin and more decorative then functional
Agree but they are not 50mm tube, look at the mule pics above with the bullbar. Its more substantial than people think.

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blackangie

Well-known member
Unusually high number of pedestrians - mostly homeless - killed in 2018 in Colorado Springs

"......Forty-eight people died on roadways across the city in 2018 — most of them drivers and passengers, and some of them bicyclists. An alarming number of them were pedestrians, most of whom were homeless, police investigators say. ..........

.......At least half of the homeless pedestrians killed in 2018, including Russell and Cordtz, were using drugs or alcohol at the time of their deaths. ...............
"

Colorado Springs does a very good job with the homeless compared to other urban areas. If it's not drugs or alcohol it is mental illness. A small percent live homeless by choice.

Regulating vehicle frontal design is not going to address the issue. Like I said, it is the second impact and launch angle that kills, not the vehicle.
Sorry was asking for stats on how pedestrian friendly cars have had minimal impact of pedestrian injury or death as per your claim, and USA would not be a good start, 5star rated ANCAP cars would be the minority imo especially as far as 4x4s are concerned.

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mpinco

Expedition Leader
........ have you tried to bend 50mm tube?.......
You may want to recheck your numbers. 50mm = ~2". Meaningless without wall thickness. My D1 factory brushbar was "50mm" and would bend/flex with little pressure. In a front end impact they would leave a nice impression of the bull bar in the front clip, to include hood.
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
Sorry was asking for stats on how pedestrian friendly cars have had minimal impact of pedestrian injury or death as per your claim, and USA would not be a good start, 5star rated ANCAP cars would be the minority imo especially as far as 4x4s are concerned.

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The pedestrian would fare the same when the homeless drugged/drunk/mentally ill step off a curb in the middle of the block where the speed limit is 45mph. The angled front end profile simply increases the launch angle to the ultimate outcome, the second impact that kills.
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
The heat exchangers are no more ruinously placed than a radiator, ive actually seen a photo of them. Its a fantastic design, i wouldn't buy a new 4x4 without separate coolers now after having them on my RRC
They've always been "separate". RRC, D1, Def all had oil, intercooler, coolant, AC, and trans coolers front and center, like most other vehicles. Some were sandwiched, some were packaged side-by-side in the "radiator", and others looked like a towel bar. This is not an improvement.
 

blackangie

Well-known member
You may want to recheck your numbers. 50mm = ~2". Meaningless without wall thickness. My D1 factory brushbar was "50mm" and would bend/flex with little pressure. In a front end impact they would leave a nice impression of the bull bar in the front clip, to include hood.
Good point.

This is the defender, i dont see why they would scimp, look how the vehicle takes the hits in testing vids and bond.

You would have to agree its bigger tube than has been previously seen on a LR product, which is a promising sign.

Ask yourself why its AU only?

It wouldn't even be allowed in the EU

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Pilat

Tossing ewoks on Titan
Unusually high number of pedestrians - mostly homeless - killed in 2018 in Colorado Springs

"......Forty-eight people died on roadways across the city in 2018 — most of them drivers and passengers, and some of them bicyclists. An alarming number of them were pedestrians, most of whom were homeless, police investigators say. ..........

.......At least half of the homeless pedestrians killed in 2018, including Russell and Cordtz, were using drugs or alcohol at the time of their deaths. ...............
"

Colorado Springs does a very good job with the homeless compared to other urban areas. If it's not drugs or alcohol it is mental illness. A small percent live homeless by choice.

Regulating vehicle frontal design is not going to address the issue. Like I said, it is the second impact and launch angle that kills, not the vehicle.
Nothing in that says the cause is pedestrian regulations (the resulting designs), or that it would not have been higher had no car whatsoever been pedestrian-friendly.


And, with that local story of yours concerning a whopping 48 people, most of them drivers and passengers according to the very parapgraphs you quote.

You're making weird jumps of logic.
By the same token, you might as well say that they were killed because that is about the time Uber was quite large, or the rise in electrical vehicles.
 

blackangie

Well-known member
The pedestrian would fare the same when the homeless drugged/drunk/mentally ill step off a curb in the middle of the block where the speed limit is 45mph. The angled front end profile simply increases the launch angle to the ultimate outcome, the second impact that kills.
Sorry asking for stats/facts about your original claim, as in a study?

For example a peer reviewed study: "we have found comparing the results of pedestrian hits with non pedestrian friendly cars to pedestrian friendly cars (ancap 5 star rated) the resulting injurys were similar or the same."

Until you provide that I'm very confident in knowing that a rounded front of a vehicle will help save pedestrian over a square one with sharp edges like a coffee table.

LR's tech already would help homeless/pedestrians, autonomous breaking will hit the anchors if somethings steps out, the rounded fronts will reduce injury/death.




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Pilat

Tossing ewoks on Titan
The pedestrian would fare the same when the homeless drugged/drunk/mentally ill step off a curb in the middle of the block where the speed limit is 45mph. The angled front end profile simply increases the launch angle to the ultimate outcome, the second impact that kills.
Still waiting for any evidence that the hypothetical "launch" angle is not only higher in something like the Defender than on, say, a normal car, and that it is causing more deaths than if we had cars like those in, say, the 60s or 70s (or 80s).
 
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