New Defender Rage/Hate Thread

[Box Rocket]

I'm running 35" tires on 18" wheels on my 2018 Ram 2500 Cummins, I think the sidewall height is pretty good. I'd like 17" wheels, but they won't fit over the brakes.

I prefer 16" wheels, but the newer vehicles brakes just won't allow that. I know driving on Utah interstates towing or just driving in general, I'm sure glad I can stop when some ************** decides to swerve in front of me without looking.

I agree. Especially for a truck that size, the larger the brakes the better. For most 4wd's (not crossover SUVs that are just awd cars) I think 18's should clear nearly all of the brake parts. I finally bumped up to 17's on my Cruiser from 16's because I couldn't find a good 37" tire to fit a 16" wheel anymore.

 

[DieselRanger]

Agreed. I'm glad the 18" steel wheels are offered on the Defender. Not sure how I'd handle a 20" rim for off-road duty.

I have tons of traction with my Discoverer AT3's and have had no issues on low-speed 4-wheeling, including 6"+ rock steps up and down. Land Rover runs the stock 20's (including the crappy stock Goodyear and Pirelli street tires) on their Moab vehicles, which are driving White Rim, Poison Spider, and Hell's Revenge - same in Asheville and in the UK which is more mossy/clay chunky peanut butter-babyheads stuff. If I was regularly doing higher speed stuff or deep sand in the 4 Corners or Great Basin where I had to worry about impacts busting a sidewall or airing way down to make it through sand/caliche then I'd definitely go for a 70-series tire on 18"s, but I've driven Medano Pass including the (damp) sand where the creek enters the dunes with my 20's at about 30psi and had no issues. Sand mode on TR2 is pretty awesome like that. Just take it slow on the rough stuff and it's fine.

 

[nickw]

I'm running 35" tires on 18" wheels on my 2018 Ram 2500 Cummins, I think the sidewall height is pretty good. I'd like 17" wheels, but they won't fit over the brakes.

I prefer 16" wheels, but the newer vehicles brakes just won't allow that. I know driving on Utah interstates towing or just driving in general, I'm sure glad I can stop when some ************** decides to swerve in front of me without looking.

Yup - engineering compromises. If a rig can fit 16's people will complain about the fact it can't tow much and can't stop, larger wheels, people **********....it's never ending.

16's are the new 15's, just like 17's are taking over now and it seems we are heading to 18's universally...

 

[DieselRanger]

New LandCruisers typically have 18's. 4runners have an 18" option I believe but also offer a 17" wheel. Personally, I feel an 18" wheel is the largest wheel I'd be comfortable using, unless you get into the really large sizes of tires (like 42"+). Makes the wheel just too prone to damage either by being closer to the ground and contacting rocks/roots etc at the sidewall, or from being close to the ground and making running low air pressures more risky with being more susceptible to punctures and or wheel damage from objects that are run over.

4-runners come with 20's on the Limited and "Nightshade Edition," whatever the f--- that is. Otherwise standard 17" wheels. And really terrible braking performance for their class.

 

[Jwestpro]

I have 32" tires on my D5 right now, no rubbing, no cutting, no lifting. 33" will fit without mods but will rub at full lock at access height - i.e., crouched down driving in a parking garage.

Well that's at least an improvement from the lr3/4. Still, a Land Cruiser can take a factory 17" and 33 with no mods. Of course the aftermarket is bigger and they have the option for new UCA and other parts allowing pretty easy fitting of 35". The D5 doesn't have active dampers does it? I think some Range Rovers do so that the high speed driving is firmer but they loosen up for trails. Not sure what it would be called now but back in 2007 there was a "dynamic handling" package for the RRS SC which was more or less like disconnecting sway bars and/or active dampers.

 

[DieselRanger]

Well that's at least an improvement from the lr3/4. Still, a Land Cruiser can take a factory 17" and 33 with no mods. Of course the aftermarket is bigger and they have the option for new UCA and other parts allowing pretty easy fitting of 35". The D5 doesn't have active dampers does it? I think some Range Rovers do so that the high speed driving is firmer but they loosen up for trails. Not sure what it would be called now but back in 2007 there was a "dynamic handling" package for the RRS SC which was more or less like disconnecting sway bars and/or active dampers.

The D5 has air suspension but not adaptive dampers - they do have "Adaptive Dynamics" available but that adjusts the cornering brake control / trail braking, steering ratio, and throttle response based on cornering forces, doesn't adjust damping rates or anything like that. It does lower the vehicle 1 inch I think at interstate speeds though.

 

[Jwestpro]

I have clearance for chains (tested). My spare tire also fits just fine. I run a 265/65/18,

I don't know about that clearance being a fool proof experience. When I've had that size on I swear it was maybe an inch clearance to the UCA ? but only at standard height which narrows as the suspension extends. It's been a long time since I had that size though so maybe I have the 275/65 in my mind now.

 

[Jwestpro]

I ran the same size on my LR3 in KO2s. They rubbed until I added 3/4" BORA spacers, an annoying and expensive mod.

But where did they rub and what chain? I'm guessing most standard chains are similar thickness. I have the RUD 4x4 which fit super easy on a consistent tire like the Michelin M/S2 but are a bit clumsy fit on the BFG KO2. I have H&R 25mm spacers on for purpose of clearing the front UCA and strut canister.

 

[Victory_Overland]

If you're at all familiar with the various electrical failure modes of these things, you'll know they have nothing to do with Lucas, yet they exist. I was bit by several and I see bargain bin LR3/4s all the time on craigslist where the owner has given up. Going by the latest reliability studies, there's every reason to suspect the latest models will age similarly.

Can't agree with you more but I've also helped some great friends pick up really nice LR3/4 from those "beta families" who can't fix their own vehicles. Helped my buddy buy an 08 LR3 with suspension fault and we fixed it with a new set of LED bulbs for less than $40; still loving it today as he cruises around Hawaii.

Point is, they can be as well as any other vehicle be a maintenance burden but the vast majority of items they have issues with are simple and not major repair items; they get the "trip to the dealer" reliability hit on the major polls because most people driving them can't even change their own flats. This leads to me to also agree with your thought process on the demographics of most LR folks but I'll take that as an advantage to us on the resale market getting cheap vehicles with no real problems and easily fixed.

I have 265/70/17 E-Rated (31.7" by definition at 32" tire) and no rub, no bump, no negative aspects at all. Spare fits if I want it in the factory spot but again, it hangs on the back for preference because I'm also putting an aux fuel tank in the spare well. I do not run chains but probably should get a set for heading north. The biggest clearance issue from my recollection is at max travel for the upper LCA and from my measurements; I do not see chains being an issue. Please someone with experience tell me the best chains cuz I only want to buy them once....lol

Again, modifications are relative to the owner! My bone stock LR3 with 18" wheels was far more capable on street tires than any other vehicle (most slightly modified) on the trails. I pulled a Jeep, Taco, and 4Runner out on the same day in Ka'ena Point, Oahu. We used my fat LR3 as an anchor to winch out the Taco and then I snatch roped out the other two; I drove right around all of them, turned around and then hooked them up in the same terrain they were stuck in.

These are not all @EricTyrrell but more for the general public.

 

[REDROVER]

Can someone tell this stupid engineer,
Go screw yourself.
Streets of LA has more potholes and it’s more challenging than his fake advertisement,
And morons out there believe that this fake defender is so capable and survivable by looking at videos like that.

See 2020 Land Rover Defender Get Trashed By Its Chief Engineer

If you had any doubts that the new Land Rover Defender wasn’t as tough as the old truck, maybe this video will change your mind.

www.motor1.com

 

[Pilat]

Can someone tell this stupid engineer,
Go screw yourself.
Streets of LA has more potholes and it’s more challenging than his fake advertisement,
And morons out there believe that this fake defender is so capable and survivable by looking at videos like that.

See 2020 Land Rover Defender Get Trashed By Its Chief Engineer

If you had any doubts that the new Land Rover Defender wasn’t as tough as the old truck, maybe this video will change your mind.

www.motor1.com

It must be fake. There are no other off-road than "crawling". Especially when we're talking "jumping".

 

[REDROVER]

Seriously man ? Do you see anything off road there ?
You think the test he did shows how durable defender is ?
100% guaranteed any Honda Accord can do the same in that test,

I never been rock crawling in my life, and don’t even like that, but wow look at that real world off road test he did.

 

[Pilat]

Seriously man ? Do you see anything off road there ?
You think the test he did shows how durable defender is ?
100% guaranteed any Honda Accord can do the same in that test,

I never been rock crawling in my life, and don’t even like that, but wow look at that real world off road test he did.

I see a run where the car gets air. So, not your usual on-road driving. Not so long ago, someone posted a solid axle car jumping on a race track (dirt), but still with no "pot holes".
Also, in that other example, the road was 7 cars wide or something. In this, the road is quite narrow. I think it speaks to how precise you can be and actually jump this thing.
It's a jump test. Hadn't realised that a car is no good unless a) has solid axles, and b) are always conquering boulders.
The test did show it was strong enough to jump. Whether it is durable, cannot be ascertained from the video.

At least you can go fast in this thing without death wobbles and without losing control because one wheel hits the ground before the other.

 

[Red90]

There is not much pointing talking to these guys. The closest they have gotten to off reading is their keyboards.

 

[jmodz]

There is not much pointing talking to these guys. The closest they have gotten to off reading is their keyboards.

You are right to an extent. The closest we have all gotten to off-roading the new defender is our keyboards.

Any video coming from a manufacturer I don’t take seriously. It’ll likely take years before we know just how good or bad the defender is off-road. It’s gonna take real people buying it and then doing crazy stuff to prove it is capable or not. I wouldn’t buy one new and then take it to do the Rubicon, but likely somebody out there will and I can’t wait to see how it does.